01 September 2015

Now Here Comes The Conservator


1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2
FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES
3
DEPARTMENT CE-99 HON. MARVIN M. LAGER, JUDGE
4
5 )
IN RE THE MATTERS OF )
6 )
)
7 THELSEY L. FULLER TRUST ) CASE NOS. BP 122665
AND ) BP 099211
8 EDWINA FULLER CONSERVATORSHIP )
)
9 ____________________________________)
10
REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
11
TUESDAY, MAY 24, 2011
12 WEDNESDAY, MAY 25, 2011
13 TESTIMONY OF STEVEN FULLER
14 APPEARANCES:
15 FOR PETITIONER:
SHIRLEY RITCHEY
16 SANDRA ARNOLD TEDDIE J. RANDALL, ATTORNEY AT LAW
3681 CRENSHAW BOULEVARD
17 LOS ANGELES, CA 90016-4849
(213)384-0470
18
19 FOR PETITIONER:
STEVEN FULLER, SYBIL YVONNE BURRELL, ATTORNEY AT LAW
20 CONSERVATOR OF 333 SOUTH GRAND AVENUE
EDWINA FULLER 25TH FLOOR
21 LOS ANGELES, CA 90071
(213) 572-3700
22
23 FOR RESPONDENTS:
DORIS FULLER
24 ROBERT FULLER LAW OFFICES OF DANIEL K. LAK
BY: DANIEL K. LAK, ATTORNEY AT LAW
25 18101 VON KARMAN AVENUE
SUITE 330
26 IRVINE, CA 92612
(949) 225-4477
27
STEPHANIE BAKER, CSR NO. 9249
28 OFFICIAL REPORTER

1 CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES
2 TUESDAY, MAY 24, 2011
3
4 PETITIONER'S WITNESSES
5 FULLER, STEVEN
DIRECT BY MS. BURRELL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
6 CROSS BY MR. RANDALL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29
CROSS BY MR. LAK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32
7 REDIRECT BY MS. BURRELL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 89
RECROSS BY MR. LAK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 92
8
9
10 RESPONDENT'S WITNESSES
11 NONE OFFERED
12
13
14 CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF EXHIBITS
15 WITHDRAWN/
PETITIONER'S FOR I.D. IN EVI REJECTED
16
17 12 ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT 9 -- --
18 13 ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT 11 -- --
19 10 ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT 13 -- --
20 3 ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT 15 -- --
21 11 SEVEN-PAGE DOCUMENT 17 -- --
22 14 ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT 27 -- --
23
24 WITHDRAWN/
RESPONDENT'S FOR I.D. IN EVI REJECTED
25
26 520 DOCUMENT 37 -- --
27 509 DOCUMENT 64 -- --
28

1 CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES
2 WEDNESDAY, MAY 25, 2011
3
4 PETITIONER'S WITNESSES
5 FULLER, STEVEN
REDIRECT BY MS. BURRELL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 96
6 RECROSS BY MR. LAK. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 105
7
8
9
10
11 RESPONDENT'S WITNESSES
12 NONE OFFERED
13
14
15
16 CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF EXHIBITS
17 WITHDRAWN/
PETITIONER'S FOR I.D. IN EVI REJECTED
18
19 5 ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT 99 -- --
20 8 THREE-PAGE DOCUMENT 101 -- --
21
22
23 WITHDRAWN/
RESPONDENT'S FOR I.D. IN EVI REJECTED
24
NONE OFFERED
25
26
27
28

1
1 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, MAY 24, 2011
2 MORNING SESSION
3 DEPARTMENT CE-99 HON. MARVIN M. LAGER, JUDGE
4 -O0O-
5 (STEPHANIE BAKER, OFFICIAL REPORTER)
6
7 (THIS BEGINS THE REQUESTED TRANSCRIBED
8 PORTION OF THE PROCEEDINGS.)
9
10 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
11 WHAT IS NEXT?
12 MS. BURRELL: MR. STEVE FULLER, YOUR HONOR.
13 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
14 MR. STEVE FULLER, PLEASE COME FORWARD. GIVE
15 YOUR ATTENTION TO THE CLERK.
16 THE CLERK: SIR, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND TO BE
17 SWORN.
18
19 STEVEN FULLER,
20 PETITIONER HEREIN, CALLED AS A WITNESS ON HIS OWN BEHALF,
21 WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
22
23 THE CLERK: YOU DO SOLEMNLY STATE THAT THE TESTIMONY
24 YOU MAY GIVE IN THE MATTER NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT
25 SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE
26 TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD?
27 THE WITNESS: YES, I DO.
28 THE CLERK: WILL YOU STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD,

2
1 PLEASE.
2 THE WITNESS: STEVEN A. FULLER.
3 THE CLERK: AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAME.
4 THE WITNESS: S-T-E-V-E-N, F-U-L-L-E-R.
5 THE CLERK: THANK YOU, SIR. PLEASE BE SEATED.
6 THE COURT: YOU MAY PROCEED.
7 MS. BURRELL: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
8
9 DIRECT EXAMINATION
10 BY MS. BURRELL
11 Q MR. FULLER, ARE YOU THE SON OF EDWINA FULLER?
12 A YES.
13 Q AND ARE YOU ALSO HER COURT-APPOINTED
14 CONSERVATOR?
15 A YES.
16 Q WERE YOU SO APPOINTED IN ABOUT FEBRUARY OF 2007?
17 A SO.
18 Q AND YOU REMAIN HER ACTING CONSERVATOR TODAY?
19 A YES.
20 Q WAS YOUR MOTHER MARRIED?
21 A YES.
22 Q TO WHOM?
23 A THELSEY L. FULLER.
24 Q AND IS THELSEY YOUR FATHER?
25 A YES.
26 Q DO YOU HAVE SIBLINGS?
27 A YES.
28 Q AND NAME THEM, PLEASE.

3
1 A CAROL SHIRLEY RITCHEY, SANDRA ARNOLD,
2 ROBERT FULLER, DORIS FULLER.
3 Q AND ARE YOU AND YOUR SIBLINGS ALL THE CHILDREN
4 OF EDWINA AND THELSEY FULLER?
5 A I WOULD SAY YES, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALWAYS
6 BEEN DISPUTES.
7 Q AND THE DISPUTE HAS BEEN ABOUT WHOM?
8 A DORIS AND MYSELF.
9 Q DID YOUR FATHER WORK?
10 A YES.
11 Q WHERE DID HE WORK AND WHEN, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE?
12 A HE WORKED -- WELL, I WAS BORN IN 1952, AND DAD
13 WAS WORKING AT THE POST OFFICE STARTING IN 1951.
14 Q AND DID HE WORK FOR THE POSTAL SERVICE FOR SOME
15 YEARS?
16 A YES, UNTIL 1980.
17 Q DID HE RETIRE IN 1980?
18 A YES.
19 Q AND WHAT WAS HIS JOB FOR THE US POSTAL SERVICE?
20 A HE WAS A MAIL CARRIER.
21 Q CALLING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE YEAR OF 1968, WERE
22 YOU LIVING WITH YOUR PARENTS THEN?
23 A YES.
24 Q AND HOW OLD WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN THEN?
25 A FIFTEEN.
26 Q AND WHERE WERE YOU IN YOUR PARENTS LIVING?
27 A 1916 NORTH BELHAVEN, LOS ANGELES.
28 Q AND WHO ELSE WAS LIVING THERE, IF ANYONE?

4
1 A JUST MYSELF AND DAD AND MOM.
2 Q DID THERE COME A TIME IN 1968 WHEN YOUR FATHER
3 MOVED OUT OF THE HOUSE?
4 A YES.
5 Q DO YOU HAVE A RECOLLECTION OF THAT EVENT?
6 A I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND I CAME HOME ONE MORNING
7 AND DAD WAS TAKING SOME OF HIS CLOTHES AND MOVING OUT.
8 Q DO YOU RECALL WHAT MONTH THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN IN
9 1968?
10 A THAT WAS EITHER LATE OCTOBER OR EARLY NOVEMBER.
11 Q AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS?
12 A WELL, BECAUSE I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND I HAD HAD
13 A PROBLEM WITH MY LEG, I WAS ON CRUTCHES. AND I JUST, YOU
14 KNOW, REMEMBER IT WAS AROUND THAT TIME. IT WAS -- I HAD
15 ALREADY STARTED HIGH SCHOOL. I WAS ALREADY A MONTH OR TWO
16 INTO HIGH SCHOOL.
17 Q DID YOU LATER LEARN WHERE YOUR FATHER MOVED
18 AFTER HE LEFT?
19 A SOME YEARS LATER, PROBABLY IN THE MID PART OF
20 1975 OR A LITTLE LATER.
21 Q WHEN DID YOU LEARN THIS?
22 A WELL -- WHAT DATE?
23 Q WHAT WERE THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT LEAD TO YOUR
24 LEARNING.
25 A THE CIRCUMSTANCES. WELL, APPARENTLY, MOM AND
26 DAD HAD CHARGE ACCOUNTS TOGETHER AND HE WAS STILL COMING BY.
27 AND, APPARENTLY, THERE WAS A BILL MADE WITH ANOTHER ADDRESS
28 ON IT. AND MY SISTER CAROL, I GUESS, HAD SPOKEN TO MOM

5
1 ABOUT IT AND HAD ME DRIVE HER OVER TO THE INGLEWOOD
2 PROPERTY.
3 Q NOW, YOU SAY THE INGLEWOOD PROPERTY. WHAT
4 ADDRESS WAS THAT?
5 A THAT WAS -- IT WAS ON 12TH AVENUE, AND I BELIEVE
6 THE ADDRESS WAS 8526 12TH AVENUE.
7 Q COULD IT HAVE BEEN 8625?
8 A 8625, YES.
9 Q AND WAS THAT WHERE YOUR FATHER -- DID YOU LEARN
10 THAT THAT'S WHERE YOUR FATHER WAS LIVING?
11 A YES.
12 Q WAS HE LIVING THERE WITH ANYONE?
13 A WE ASSUMED THE LADY THAT CAME TO THE DOOR. HE
14 WAS LIVING WITH THE LADY THAT CAME TO THE DOOR.
15 Q DID YOU LATER LEARN THE IDENTITY OF THIS LADY?
16 A YES.
17 Q AND WHO WAS THAT?
18 A ODESSA GAINS.
19 Q AND WHO IS ODESSA GAINS TO YOUR FATHER OR WHO
20 WAS ODESSA GAINS TO YOUR FATHER, IF YOU KNOW?
21 A HIS GIRLFRIEND.
22 Q AND WHEN DID YOU LEARN THAT THIS WAS HIS
23 GIRLFRIEND?
24 A WELL, I GUESS THAT HAD TO HAVE BEEN THE LATE
25 '70'S OR AROUND THE TIME THAT HE RETIRED.
26 Q OKAY.
27 DID YOU MAINTAIN A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR FATHER
28 AFTER HE MOVED OUT OF THE BELHAVEN PROPERTY IN 1968?

6
1 A YES.
2 Q AND DID YOU MAINTAIN A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM TO
3 HIS DEATH -- UNTIL HIS DEATH?
4 A THE RELATIONSHIP WAS INTERRUPTED BECAUSE HE WAS
5 BEING ISOLATED BY MY BROTHER ROBERT AND DORIS.
6 Q CALLING YOUR ATTENTION CLOSER TO 1968 RIGHT
7 AFTER HE MOVED, DID YOU CONTINUE TO SEE YOUR FATHER AT ALL?
8 A YES.
9 Q HOW AND WHEN WOULD YOU SEE HIM? HOW OFTEN AND
10 WHERE WOULD YOU SEE HIM?
11 A OKAY. HE WOULD COME BY AND VISIT MOM AT THE
12 BELL HAVEN PROPERTY.
13 Q AND HOW OFTEN WOULD THAT HAPPEN?
14 A THAT WOULD HAPPEN MAYBE TWICE A MONTH, MAYBE
15 MORE THAN THAT.
16 Q WERE YOU FAMILIAR WITH YOUR FATHER'S FINANCES AT
17 ALL?
18 A YES.
19 Q DID YOU KNOW WHERE HE BANKED?
20 A YES.
21 Q WAS THERE EVER AN OCCASION WHERE YOU TOOK HIM
22 BANKING, TO DO HIS BANKING?
23 A I REMEMBER TAKING HIM TO A CHECK CASHING PLACE,
24 BUT TO THE BANK -- I MAY HAVE TAKEN HIM THERE ONCE, BUT I
25 CAN'T REMEMBER.
26 Q WHEN WOULD IT HAVE BEEN THAT YOU TOOK HIM TO A
27 CHECK CASHING?
28 A OH, THAT WAS GOING ON EVERY MONTH.

7
1 Q IN WHAT TIME?
2 A THAT WAS ONCE A MONTH.
3 Q IN WHAT YEARS, PERHAPS, OR MONTHS?
4 A OH BOY, THAT -- WOW. IT WAS BEFORE ODESSA'S
5 DEATH BECAUSE I REMEMBER BRINGING THEM BOTH TO THE BANK
6 BECAUSE THE BANK WAS NOT FAR AWAY FROM WHERE I LIVED. THAT
7 WAS PROBABLY IN THE LATE 1990'S, EARLY -- LATE 1990'S AND
8 EARLY 2000.
9 Q DO YOU KNOW WHETHER YOUR FATHER RECEIVED
10 RETIREMENT INCOME FROM THE US POSTAL SERVICE?
11 A YES.
12 Q DO YOU KNOW WHETHER HE RECEIVED SOCIAL SECURITY
13 BENEFITS?
14 A YES.
15 Q DID YOU MAINTAIN A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR MOTHER
16 AFTER YOUR FATHER LEFT?
17 A ABSOLUTELY.
18 Q AND YOU MAINTAIN A RELATIONSHIP WITH HER TO THIS
19 DATE?
20 A ABSOLUTELY.
21 Q WHERE DOES SHE LIVE?
22 A SHE LIVES IN MY HOME.
23 Q AND HOW LONG HAS SHE LIVED IN YOUR HOME?
24 A SINCE 1999.
25 Q AND WHERE DID SHE LIVE BEFORE THEN?
26 A 1916 NORTH BELHAVEN.
27 Q WHEN YOUR FATHER LEFT IN 1968, HOW DID YOUR
28 MOTHER SUPPORT HERSELF; DO YOU KNOW?

8
1 A WELL, DAD WOULD COME BY AND BRING HER A LITTLE
2 MONEY HERE AND THERE. AND SHE WENT DOWN AND APPLIED FOR
3 COUNTY ASSISTANCE, I KNOW THAT. AND THEN, OF COURSE, AS
4 SOON AS I TURNED 18 AND GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL, I GOT A
5 JOB AT DOCTOR'S HOSPITAL IN COMPTON AND I WAS CONTRIBUTING
6 TO THE INCOME IN THE HOME.
7 Q DO YOU KNOW IF YOUR FATHER PAID CHILD SUPPORT?
8 A NOT THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM. HE WOULD COME BY
9 AND GIVE HER $80 FOR ME A MONTH, YOU KNOW, BEFORE I TURNED
10 18.
11 Q SO HOW MANY YEARS WOULD YOU SAY YOUR FATHER, IF
12 YOU KNOW, PAID THIS $80 PER MONTH?
13 A OFF AND ON FOR -- WELL, FOR ME, YOU KNOW, IT WAS
14 UNTIL I WAS 18, BUT I REMEMBER HIM STILL COMING BY AND
15 SEEING MOM AND I IMAGINE THAT HE STILL GAVE HER SOME MONEY.
16 MS. BURRELL: ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR.
17
18 (PAUSE IN THE PROCEEDINGS.)
19
20 BY MS. BURRELL
21 Q HAVE YOU HAD OCCASION TO INVESTIGATE WHETHER
22 YOUR PARENTS EVER DIVORCED?
23 A YES.
24 Q AND HOW DID YOU INVESTIGATE THIS?
25 A WELL, I WENT DOWN TO THE COURT RECORDS AND I
26 ASKED THE CLERK HAD THERE EVER BEEN A DIVORCE OR LEGAL
27 SEPARATION OR ANY PAPERWORK AT ALL.
28 AND THEY SAID NO, BUT THEY SHOWED ME A

9
1 DOCUMENT -- THEY CERTIFIED A DOCUMENT STATING THAT THEY WERE
2 STILL LEGALLY MARRIED AND THAT THERE WAS NO RECORD OF A
3 LEGAL SEPARATION AND NO RECORD OF A DIVORCE.
4 MS. BURRELL: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
5 THE COURT: YES.
6 MS. BURRELL: I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU A DOCUMENT. IT'S
7 ENTITLED CERTIFICATE OF CLERK. IT'S BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED,
8 YOUR HONOR, IN MY REVISED EXHIBIT LIST AS NUMBER 12.
9
10 (MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
11 PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 12, ONE-PAGE
12 DOCUMENT.)
13
14 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
15
16 BY MS. BURRELL
17 Q LET ME SHOW YOU THIS.
18 A UH-HUH.
19 Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS DOCUMENT?
20 A YES, I DO.
21 Q THIS IS --
22 MR. LAK: I'M SORRY, YOUR HONOR. IF I MAY HAVE JUST A
23 MOMENT SO I CAN FIND YOUR EXHIBIT, MAKE SURE I'M ON THE
24 RIGHT PAGE.
25 THE COURT: DO I HAVE A COPY OF THIS?
26 MS. BURRELL: YES, YOUR HONOR.
27 THE CLERK: YOUR HONOR, IT'S THE NEW LIST I GAVE YOU.
28 THE COURT: I NEED -- THE DOCUMENT I'M ASKING ABOUT.

10
1 THE CLERK: IT'S ATTACHED.
2 THE COURT: I SEE.
3 MR. LAK: SYBIL, IT'S NOT MARKED. I WANT TO MAKE SURE
4 I HAVE THE RIGHT ONE.
5 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. I HAVE IT NOW.
6 BY MS. BURRELL
7 Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS DOCUMENT?
8 A YES, I DO.
9 Q DOES IT APPEARS TO BE A TRUE AND ACCURATE COPY
10 OF THE DOCUMENT YOU RECEIVED AFTER YOU SEARCHED FOR RECORDS
11 OF YOUR PARENTS' --
12 A YES.
13 Q -- DIVORCE?
14 A ABSOLUTELY.
15 Q AND THIS DOCUMENT SAYS (READING:) THAT NO
16 INTERLOCUTORY JUDGMENT OF DISSOLUTION OF MARRIAGE HAS BEEN
17 ENTERED INTO THIS PARTICULAR CASE.
18 IS THAT CORRECT?
19 A THAT'S CORRECT.
20 Q AND IT APPEARS TO BE A DIS -- OR A PROCEEDING
21 NAMING YOUR MOTHER, EDWINA FULLER, AS PETITIONER AND YOUR
22 FATHER, THELSEY FULLER, AS RESPONDENT; IS THAT CORRECT?
23 A THAT IS CORRECT.
24 Q AND MR. FULLER, DID YOU ALSO CAUSE A FULLER
25 SEARCH OF THE RECORDS OF YOUR PARENTS DISSOLUTION TO BE
26 PERFORMED AS PART OF THIS LITIGATION?
27 A WELL, JUST THE FIRST PART, YES, I DID. THE ONE
28 THAT YOU JUST SHOWED ME, YES. I ASKED THEM FOR THAT, BUT --

11
1 Q AND AS PART OF THIS LITIGATION, DID YOU HAVE THE
2 FULL RECORD OF YOUR PARENTS DISSOLUTION PULLED FOR REVIEW?
3 A YES.
4 Q LET ME SHOW YOU ANOTHER DOCUMENT. IT'S BEEN
5 MARKED AS ITEM NUMBER 13. IT'S A ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT AND IT
6 APPEARS TO BE A PAGE -- A MINUTE ORDER FROM THE SAME CASE,
7 EDWINA FULLER VERSUS THELSEY FULLER, CASE NUMBER SED12783C.
8 A THAT'S CORRECT.
9
10 (MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
11 PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 13, ONE-PAGE
12 DOCUMENT.)
13
14 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
15
16 BY MS. BURRELL
17 Q DO YOU SEE THIS DOCUMENT?
18 A YES, I DO.
19 Q NOW, THIS DOCUMENT SAYS, AS PART OF ITS MINUTE
20 ORDER, THAT (READING:) UPON REPRESENTATION OF COUNSEL AND
21 DEFENDANT THAT THE PARTIES HAVE RECONCILED. DEFENDANT IS
22 ORDERED TO PAY DIRECTLY TO COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFF $100
23 ATTORNEYS FEES PAYABLE $15 A MONTH ON THE FIRST OF EACH
24 MONTH COMMENCING MARCH 1, 1968 AND CONTINUING THEREAFTER
25 UNTIL PAID.
26 DO YOU SEE THAT?
27 A YES.
28 Q IF YOU RECALL, DID A TIME COME WHEN YOUR

12
1 PARENTS, IN FACT, RECONCILED?
2 A YES.
3 Q WELL, QUESTION: DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS DIVORCE
4 PROCEEDING IN 1968?
5 A NO.
6 Q DID YOU HAVE ANY IDEA THAT YOUR FATHER WOULD BE
7 LEAVING IN OCTOBER, THE FAMILY, AND MOVING OUT IN OCTOBER OF
8 1968?
9 A NO, I WAS TOTALLY SURPRISED.
10 Q HAVE YOU HAD OCCASION TO INVESTIGATE WHO OWNS
11 THE PROPERTY AT 1916 NORTH BELHAVEN?
12 A YES.
13 Q AND DID YOU CAUSE A SEARCH TO BE DONE OF THE
14 RECORDS?
15 A YES.
16 Q LET ME SHOW YOU A ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT. IT'S
17 ENTITLED (READING:) JOINT TENANCY GRANT DEED. IT'S BEEN
18 PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS PETITIONER'S ITEM NUMBER TEN. IT BEARS
19 A DATE OF JULY 23RD, 1949.
20 MR. LAK: I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY, YOUR HONOR.
21 SYBIL, WOULD YOU MIND WAITING A MOMENT SO I CAN
22 FIND IT. IS IT IN THAT BOOK YOU GAVE ME YESTERDAY --
23 MS. BURRELL: IT'S IN THE REVISED --
24 MR. LAK: -- OR THE AMENDED ONE TODAY?
25 MS. BURRELL: YES.
26 MR. LAK: YES, TODAY?
27 MS. BURRELL: YES.
28 MR. LAK: I JUST HAVE FOUR -- THREE ATTACHMENTS TO

13
1 WHAT YOU GAVE ME TODAY.
2 MS. BURRELL: THAT'S RIGHT. THIS IS ONE (INDICATING).
3 MR. LAK: I DON'T HAVE IT.
4
5 (A DISCUSSION WAS HELD IN OPEN COURT
6 BETWEEN COUNSEL, WHICH WAS NOT
7 REPORTED.)
8
9 THE COURT: I DON'T HAVE A TEN. I HAVE 11 ON THE
10 DOCUMENTS YOU GAVE ME TODAY.
11 MS. BURRELL: YES.
12 THE COURT: IT STARTS AT 11. AND MY BOOK GOES THROUGH
13 EIGHT, AND NINE WAS THE CONSUMER POWER OF ATTORNEY.
14 MS. BURRELL: ITEM NUMBER TEN, YOUR HONOR, ON THE
15 REVISED LIST IS THIS DOCUMENT (INDICATING). IT'S WHAT USED
16 TO BE ITEM NUMBER TWO, AND THE REASON WE HAD TO CHANGE IT
17 WAS BECAUSE OF WHAT WE DID PRELIMINARILY ADDING THE TRUST
18 AND THE AMENDMENT AS ONE AND TWO.
19 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
20 MS. BURRELL: SO THAT'S WHAT CAUSED THE RE-ORDERING.
21 THE COURT: SO WHAT'S MARKED IN THE BOOK AS ITEM
22 NUMBER TWO WILL BE EXHIBIT TEN. IT WILL BE SO MARKED.
23
24 (MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
25 PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 10, ONE-PAGE
26 DOCUMENT.)
27
28 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)

14
1 BY MS. BURRELL
2 Q THIS DOCUMENT APPEARS TO BE A DEED -- OR DOES
3 THIS DOCUMENT APPEAR TO BE A DEED GRANTING A PROPERTY TO
4 THELSEY FULLER AND EDWINA FULLER AS HUSBAND AND WIFE?
5 A YES.
6 Q AND IT WAS DONE IN JULY 23RD OF 1949?
7 A YES.
8 Q IS THAT CORRECT?
9 A THAT'S CORRECT.
10 Q AND IN YOUR RESEARCH, HAVE YOU DISCOVERED THAT
11 THIS IS THE DEED THAT CONVEYED THE PROPERTY AT 1916 NORTH
12 BELHAVEN TO YOUR PARENTS?
13 A YES.
14 Q THE NEXT DOCUMENT I'LL SHOW YOU -- DID THE TIME
15 COME, MR. FULLER, WHEN YOU HAD OCCASION TO INVESTIGATE THE
16 TITLE OF THE PROPERTY AT 8625 12TH AVENUE?
17 A YES.
18 Q OKAY.
19 AND WERE DOCUMENTS OBTAINED PURSUANT TO THAT
20 SEARCH?
21 A YES.
22 Q LET ME SHOW YOU ANOTHER ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT. IT'S
23 BEEN PREMARKED AS ITEM NUMBER THREE. IT'S ENTITLED
24 (READING:) JOINT TENANCY GRANT DEED. IT BEARS A DATE OF
25 AUGUST 21ST, 1968.
26
27
28

15
1 (MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
2 PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 3, ONE-PAGE
3 DOCUMENT.)
4
5 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
6
7 BY MS. BURRELL
8 Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS DOCUMENT?
9 A YES.
10 Q DOES IT APPEAR TO BE A TRUE AND ACCURATE COPY OF
11 THE DOCUMENTS THAT YOU OBTAINED AS A RESULT OF YOUR RESEARCH
12 OF 12TH AVENUE?
13 A YES.
14 Q OKAY.
15 NOW THIS DOCUMENT PURPORTS TO CONVEY A PROPERTY
16 TO (READING:) THELSEY FULLER, AN UNMARRIED MAN, AND ODESSA
17 GAINS, A SINGLE MAN, AS JOINT TENANTS; IS THAT CORRECT?
18 A THAT IS CORRECT.
19 Q ODESSA GAINS IS A FEMALE FOR STARTERS; IS THAT
20 RIGHT?
21 A YES.
22 Q OKAY.
23 ON AUGUST 21ST, 1968, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER YOUR
24 FATHER WAS MARRIED OR UNMARRIED?
25 A HE WAS MARRIED.
26 Q AND WAS HE STILL MARRIED TO YOUR MOTHER?
27 A HE WAS MARRIED TO MY MOTHER AND STILL AT 1916
28 NORTH BELHAVEN.

16
1 Q AND IN YOUR SEARCH FOR DIVORCE RECORDS BETWEEN
2 YOUR MOTHER AND YOUR FATHER DID YOU EVER FIND ANY EVIDENCE
3 OF YOUR FATHER MARRYING ODESSA GAINS?
4 A NO.
5 Q OR MARRYING ANYONE?
6 A NO.
7 Q OR HAVING BECOME DIVORCED FROM YOUR MOTHER?
8 A NO.
9 Q HAVE YOU HAD OCCASION TO INVESTIGATE YOUR
10 FATHER'S RETIREMENT INCOME RECORD?
11 A YES.
12 Q WHEN DID YOU DO THIS?
13 A I DID THIS -- OH, LET'S SEE, THIS IS 2011. I
14 DID THIS BACK IN 2009.
15 Q AND HOW DID YOU HAVE THIS DONE?
16 A WELL, WE DID IT THROUGH THE COURT. FIRST, THE
17 ATTORNEY SENT A SUBPOENA, THAT DIDN'T WORK. SO WE WENT
18 THROUGH THE JUDGE AND THE JUDGE ORDERED IT. AND ATTORNEY
19 ANDERSON, WHICH WAS THE CONSERVATORSHIP ATTORNEY AT THE
20 TIME, RECEIVED THE PAPERWORK FROM THE UNITED STATES POSTAL
21 OFFICE.
22 Q SO THERE WAS A SUBPOENA ISSUED TO THE US POSTAL
23 SERVICE?
24 A YES, IT WAS.
25 Q AND THAT SUBPOENA WAS ISSUED BY YOUR COUNSEL?
26 A COUNSEL, YES.
27 Q AND THAT'S SANDRA ANDERSON?
28 A YES.

17
1 Q AND THAT WAS DONE IN 2009?
2 A BOY, I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS 2009 OR 2010.
3 2009.
4 Q WAS A RESULT OBTAINED?
5 A YES.
6 Q HAVE YOU SEEN THE EVIDENCE OF THAT -- DOCUMENTS
7 PRODUCED PURSUANT TO THE SUBPOENA?
8 A YES, I HAVE.
9 Q LET ME SHOW YOU A LETTER AND SOME DOCUMENTS.
10 IT'S A TOTAL OF SEVEN PAGES. THE LETTER IS FROM THE
11 UNITED STATES OFFICE OF PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT AND IT'S BEEN
12 PRE-MARKED, YOUR HONOR, AS MY NEW NUMBER 11.
13
14 (MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
15 PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 11, SEVEN-PAGE
16 DOCUMENT.)
17
18 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
19
20 BY MS. BURRELL
21 Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS?
22 A YES, THAT'S THE COVER LETTER.
23 Q AND THE COVER LETTER IS FROM A WOMAN NAMED
24 BONNIE SMITH; IS THAT CORRECT?
25 A THAT'S CORRECT.
26 Q AND IN HER COVER LETTER, IS SHE CERTIFYING THAT
27 SHE'S ATTACHED DOCUMENTS CONCERNING YOUR FATHER?
28 A YES.

18
1 Q OKAY.
2 LET ME TURN YOUR ATTENTION TO PAGE NUMBER FOUR
3 OF THIS EXHIBIT. DOES THIS PAGE APPEAR TO BE A
4 RECONCILIATION OF YOUR FATHER'S PAY FROM 1971 THROUGH 1980?
5 A YES. YES, IT DOES. HIS CONTRIBUTION TO THE
6 RETIREMENT PLAN.
7 Q AND IT IS SIGNED BY AN OFFICER CERTIFYING THAT;
8 IS THAT CORRECT?
9 A THAT IS CORRECT.
10 Q AND IT LISTS AN AMOUNT OF $14,940 AS YOUR
11 FATHER'S TOTAL CONTRIBUTIONS TOWARDS HIS RETIREMENT; IS THAT
12 CORRECT?
13 A THAT IS CORRECT.
14 Q NOW, THE ENTRIES DON'T GO PAST 1980; IS THAT
15 CORRECT?
16 A THAT'S CORRECT.
17 Q IS IT ALSO TRUE THAT YOUR FATHER RETIRED IN
18 1980?
19 A YES.
20 Q NOW, LET ME CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO PAGE NUMBER
21 EIGHT -- OR SEVEN OF THIS, THE VERY LAST PAGE.
22 DOES THIS APPEAR TO BE A RECONCILIATION OR A
23 LISTING OF YOUR FATHER'S MONTHLY RETIREMENT PAY RATES?
24 A YES.
25 Q AND THEY APPEAR TO START IN THE MONTH OF MARCH
26 OF 1980; IS THAT CORRECT?
27 A THAT'S CORRECT.
28 Q AND AS FAR AS THIS SHEET IS CONCERNED, IT

19
1 CONTINUES WITH AMOUNTS THROUGH DECEMBER 1ST OF 2007; IS THAT
2 CORRECT?
3 A THAT'S CORRECT.
4 Q OKAY.
5 HAVE YOU HAD OCCASION AFTER YOU HAVE LOOKED AT
6 THIS TO SORT OF DO THE MATH? IN OTHER WORDS, TO FIGURE OUT
7 THE MONTHLY AMOUNTS --
8 A YES.
9 Q -- FOR EACH FIGURE THAT'S LISTED HERE?
10 A UH-HUH.
11 Q AND HAVE YOU TOTALED THEM FOR THE MONTHLY INCOME
12 FROM 1980 THROUGH 2007?
13 A YES.
14 Q OKAY.
15 AND DID YOU COME UP WITH A FIGURE?
16 A YES.
17 Q DO YOU RECALL THAT FIGURE?
18 A 429 OR 426. I GET REVERSED IN THAT, BUT IT'S
19 AROUND $429,000.
20 Q DO YOU RECALL IT BEING IN EXCESS OF $400,000?
21 A YES.
22 Q AND HOW DID YOU CALCULATE THAT? DID YOU --
23 A WELL, YOU HAVE TO GO BY YEAR. FIRST, IT STARTED
24 OFF -- IT LISTED EACH AMOUNT THAT HE WAS PAID PER MONTH BY
25 YEAR AND THEN YOU JUST -- YOU START ADDING. IT WAS MARCH,
26 THEN YOU ADD LIKE 720 FROM MARCH, APRIL 720, MAY 720, AND SO
27 FORTH UNTIL YOU -- RIGHT HERE IT WENT TO SEPTEMBER AND IT
28 WAS INCREASED BY $25 WHICH MADE IT 775.

20
1 Q SO --
2 A WELL, MORE THAN THAT, MORE THAN 25. BUT $775.
3 Q SO FOR EACH PERIOD --
4 A YEAH.
5 Q -- BETWEEN THE DATES --
6 A DATES.
7 Q -- YOU WOULD CALCULATE THE MONTHS --
8 A RIGHT.
9 Q -- AND THEN YOU WOULD MULTIPLY THE MONTHS BY
10 THAT MONTHLY -- BY EACH MONTHLY AMOUNT?
11 A YES.
12 Q AND THAT'S HOW YOU DETERMINED THAT
13 THELSEY FULLER'S RETIREMENT INCOME EXCEEDED $400,000?
14 A YES.
15 Q CALLING YOUR ATTENTION TO MAY OF 2008.
16 DID YOU CAUSE A PETITION TO BE FILED WITH THIS
17 COURT SEEKING A DETERMINATION OF YOUR MOTHER'S INTEREST IN
18 THE BELHAVEN PROPERTY, THE 12TH AVENUE PROPERTY AND IN YOUR
19 FATHER'S RETIREMENT INCOME?
20 A YES.
21 Q WHERE WAS YOUR MOTHER LIVING AT THIS TIME?
22 A SHE WAS LIVING IN MY HOME.
23 Q WERE YOU IN CONTACT WITH YOUR FATHER AT THIS
24 TIME?
25 A YES.
26 Q AND HOW OLD WOULD HE HAVE BEEN IN MAY OF 2008?
27 A NINETY-ONE, 90 OR 91.
28 Q HOW OLD WAS HE WHEN HE DIED?

21
1 A NINETY-TWO.
2 Q AT SOME POINT AFTER MAY 2008, DID YOUR FATHER
3 COME TO LIVE WITH YOU AND YOUR MOTHER?
4 A YES.
5 Q AND WHEN WOULD THIS HAVE BEEN?
6 A THE LATTER PART OF JUNE OR THE EARLY PART OF
7 JULY BECAUSE HE WAS THERE ON JULY 4TH, BECAUSE I WANTED TO
8 TAKE THEM OUT.
9 Q AND HOW LONG DID HE LIVE WITH YOU AND YOUR
10 MOTHER?
11 A FOR THREE TO FOUR WEEKS.
12 Q AND DID HE LEAVE AT SOME POINT?
13 A YES.
14 Q WHEN DID HE LEAVE?
15 A HE LEFT JULY 21ST.
16 THE COURT: WHAT YEAR?
17 THE WITNESS: 2008 -- I'M SORRY. YEAH, 2008, THAT'S
18 CORRECT.
19 THE COURT: GO AHEAD. NEXT QUESTION.
20 BY MS. BURRELL
21 Q AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THAT'S THE DATE THAT HE
22 LEFT?
23 A WELL, I'M A TRAINER AT A LAW FIRM, SO I HAD A
24 LOT OF TRAININGS SCHEDULED AND I WANTED TO TAKE SOME TIME
25 OFF FOR DAD. AND, UNFORTUNATELY, THE MANAGER DID NOT COME
26 IN AND I HAD TO GO IN TO WORK.
27 AND WHILE I WAS AT WORK, I RECEIVED A TELEPHONE
28 CALL FROM MY NEPHEW STATING THAT DORIS AND ROBERT WERE

22
1 LEAVING DAD WITH -- WELL, THAT DORIS AND ROBERT WERE TAKING
2 DAD, AND I HAD NOT RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM EITHER ONE OF
3 THEM WITH WHAT THEIR INTENTIONS WERE WHEN THEY CAME BY.
4 Q SO WHEN YOU RECEIVED THIS INFORMATION, WERE YOU
5 SURPRISED?
6 A YEAH.
7 Q DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH ROBERT OR
8 DORIS?
9 A I HAD A CONVERSATION, A BRIEF CONVERSATION WITH
10 DORIS AND THEN I SPOKE WITH MY FATHER AND, YOU KNOW, GAVE
11 THE PHONE BACK TO QUINTON AND I JUST LET IT GO.
12 Q AND THAT WAS ON JULY 21ST OF 2008?
13 A YES.
14 Q AND WHEN YOU CAME HOME THAT DAY WAS YOUR
15 FATHER --
16 A NO.
17 Q -- THERE?
18 DID YOU LEARN -- DID YOU FINALLY LEARN WHERE HE
19 WENT?
20 A YES.
21 Q WHERE DID HE GO?
22 A TO DORIS' HOME.
23 Q CALLING YOUR ATTENTION TO JUNE OF 2009, THAT'S A
24 YEAR OR SO AFTER YOUR FATHER MOVED OUT --
25 A UH-HUH.
26 Q -- OF YOUR HOUSE. WAS YOUR PETITION ON BEHALF
27 OF YOUR MOTHER STILL PENDING?
28 A OF JUNE OF 2009?

23
1 Q YES.
2 A YES.
3 Q AND HAD YOU LEARNED THAT YOUR -- HAD YOU LEARNED
4 AT THAT POINT WHETHER YOUR BROTHER AND SISTER HAD OBTAINED A
5 POWER OF ATTORNEY FOR YOUR --
6 A YES.
7 Q -- FOR YOUR FATHER'S ACCOUNT?
8 A YES. I KNEW ABOUT THE POWER OF ATTORNEY, YES.
9 Q AND DID THAT CONCERN YOU?
10 A ORIGINALLY IT DID NOT CONCERN ME AS MUCH, BUT
11 AFTER THEY -- WHEN DORIS CALLED ME A DAY BEFORE THEY CAME
12 OVER TO REMOVE DAD, THE CONVERSATION WAS VERY STRANGE TO ME.
13 I MEAN, WHEN I PICKED UP THE PHONE AND ANSWERED, SHE IN A
14 VERY ROUGH VOICE, SHE SAID, WHO WANTS TO KNOW ABOUT THESE
15 CHECKS, DADDY'S CHECKS?
16 I SAID -- THEN I ASKED HER WAS SHE FEELING OKAY,
17 BECAUSE I WAS TAKEN ABACK AT THE TONE OF HER VOICE.
18 Q DID YOU FINALLY FILE SOMETHING IN THIS COURT TO
19 TRY TO STOP YOUR FATHER'S FUNDS FROM BEING REMOVED WHILE
20 THIS LITIGATION WAS PENDING?
21 A ABSOLUTELY. TO PROTECT NOT JUST MY MOTHER, BUT
22 ALSO TO PROTECT MY FATHER.
23 Q AND A HEARING WAS HELD ON THAT PETITION?
24 A JUNE 30TH.
25 Q JUNE 30TH OF WHAT YEAR?
26 A 2009.
27 Q WERE YOU PRESENT AT THAT HEARING?
28 A NO.

24
1 Q WAS YOUR ATTORNEY PRESENT?
2 A YES.
3 Q WAS THAT SANDRA ANDERSON?
4 A THAT WAS SANDRA ANDERSON, YES.
5 Q WAS YOUR PETITION OR MOTION THAT WAS FILED TO
6 FREEZE THE FUNDS SUCCESSFUL?
7 A NO, IT WAS NOT. THEY REMOVED THE FUNDS BEFORE
8 THE JUDGE COULD RULE ON THE PETITION -- OR THE RESTRAINING
9 ORDER.
10 Q AND WHEN YOU SAY "THEY," WHO DO YOU MEAN?
11 A ROBERT AND DORIS.
12 Q AND DID YOU LEARN WHEN THEY REMOVED THE FUNDS
13 FROM THE BANK ACCOUNT THAT YOU WERE TRYING TO FREEZE?
14 A YES.
15 Q AND WHEN DID THAT OCCUR?
16 A JULY 1ST.
17 Q THAT'S ONE DAY AFTER YOUR PETITION?
18 A YES.
19 Q DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH WAS REMOVED FROM YOUR
20 FATHER'S ACCOUNTS?
21 A THAT DAY, 235,000.
22 Q AND WHAT'S YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE THAT
23 MONEY WENT?
24 A MY UNDERSTANDING WHERE THE MONEY WENT WAS ROBERT
25 TOOK HALF, DORIS TOOK THE OTHER HALF AND THEY WENT AND
26 DEPOSITED THE MONEY AT A CREDIT UNION.
27 Q WAS YOUR FATHER A FRUGAL MAN?
28 A VERY.

25
1 Q WAS HE A SAVER?
2 A ABSOLUTELY.
3 Q DO YOU KNOW WHETHER HE HAD HIGH EXPENSES?
4 A NO. THEY HAD ALWAYS KEPT HIS EXPENSES LOW. HE
5 WAS VERY -- WE USED TO CALL IT TIGHT. HE WAS VERY TIGHT
6 WITH HIS MONEY.
7 Q DID YOU EVER HEAR OF YOUR FATHER INHERITING
8 MONEY?
9 A NO.
10 Q DID YOU EVER HEAR OF HIM RECEIVING A GIFT OF
11 MONEY FROM ANYONE?
12 A NO.
13 Q OF ANY SIZE, THAT YOU CAN RECALL?
14 A THERE WAS ONLY ONE INCIDENT. HE SAVED A LADY'S
15 LIFE AND SHE GAVE HIM A WATCH. HE WAS -- BEING A POSTMAN, I
16 THINK HE SAW SOMETHING UNUSUAL AND CALLED THE PARAMEDICS OR
17 WHATEVER.
18 Q WHAT YEAR WAS THAT?
19 A THAT WAS WHEN I WAS REALLY YOUNG, THAT HAD TO BE
20 IN THE EARLY '60'S.
21 Q WHEN DID YOU FIRST MEET ODESSA GAINS?
22 A I BELIEVE THAT I MET HER THE LATE '70'S.
23 Q DO YOU REMEMBER THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF MEETING
24 HER?
25 A I MET HER FOR THE FIRST TIME AT HIS RETIREMENT
26 PARTY, SO THAT WOULD HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN 1980.
27 Q AND WHEN YOU MET HER, WAS SHE INTRODUCED IN SOME
28 RELATIONSHIP TO YOUR FATHER? WAS SHE INTRODUCED AS YOUR

26
1 FATHER'S GIRLFRIEND?
2 A NO, SHE WAS NOT. SHE WAS INTRODUCED AS A FRIEND
3 OF HIS.
4 Q AND FROM 1980, FOR THE NEXT YEARS UNTIL HER
5 DEATH, DID YOU SEE HER OFTEN?
6 A YES. I WOULD GO OVER THERE AND ASSIST MY FATHER
7 AND VISIT HIM, AND SHE WAS THERE.
8 Q DID YOU KNOW OF HER TO WORK?
9 A NO.
10 Q HAVE YOU HAD OCCASION DURING THIS LITIGATION TO
11 INVESTIGATE ANYTHING ABOUT ODESSA GAINS?
12 A YES. I PULLED HER DEATH CERTIFICATE AND --
13 Q DID ODESSA GAINS GO BY ANY OTHER NAMES?
14 A YES. SHE -- DAD USED TO COMPLAIN A LITTLE BIT
15 ABOUT HER ALIASES BECAUSE HER BIRTH NAME WAS CONWAY,
16 C-O-N-W-A-Y, I BELIEVE AND THEN SHE WAS USING ODESSA GAINS,
17 AND THEN THE PHONE WAS IN BERTHA HOOD. AND I DON'T KNOW ANY
18 OTHER NAMES, BUT THOSE THREE I DO KNOW OF.
19 Q SO DID YOU, PERSONALLY, GO AND TRY TO OBTAIN A
20 COPY OF ODESSA GAINS' DEATH CERTIFICATE?
21 A YES.
22 Q AND DID YOU -- WERE YOU SUCCESSFUL IN OBTAINING
23 IT?
24 A YES, I WAS.
25 Q LET ME SHOW YOU A DOCUMENT. IT'S A ONE-PAGE
26 DOCUMENT ENTITLED (READING:) COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES
27 DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH. IT'S BEEN PRE-MARKED AS
28 EXHIBIT NUMBER 14.

27
1 (MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
2 PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 14, ONE-PAGE
3 DOCUMENT.)
4
5 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
6
7 BY MS. BURRELL
8 Q LET ME ASK YOU IF YOU RECOGNIZE THIS.
9 A YES, I DO.
10 Q DOES THIS APPEAR TO BE A TRUE AND ACCURATE --
11 WELL, ACTUALLY, THE COPY THAT YOU OBTAINED FROM THE COUNTY
12 RECORDER'S OFFICE?
13 A YES, IT IS.
14 Q OKAY.
15 AND HAVE YOU READ IT?
16 A YES.
17 Q SO NOW THIS DOCUMENT REFERS TO AN ODESSA CONWAY;
18 IS THAT CORRECT?
19 A THAT'S CORRECT.
20 Q DO YOU BELIEVE THAT TO BE ODESSA GAINS?
21 A YES.
22 Q AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THIS IS THE CORRECT
23 DEATH CERTIFICATE FOR ODESSA GAINS?
24 A WELL, IT HAS HER ADDRESS IN INGLEWOOD ON HERE.
25 LET'S SEE, THERE IT IS RIGHT THERE (INDICATING), 8625 12TH
26 AVENUE. IT HAS THE DATE OF HER DEATH.
27 Q SO WHEN YOU PERFORMED THE SEARCH, WHAT
28 INFORMATION DID YOU GIVE THEM TO -- CONCERNING ODESSA GAINS

28
1 THAT RESULTED IN THIS DEATH CERTIFICATE?
2 A WELL, I GAVE THEM ALL THREE NAMES -- WELL, I
3 GAVE THEM TWO DIFFERENT NAMES, CONWAY AND GAINS. I KNEW OF
4 THE CONWAY AND I KNEW OF THE GAINS, SO I JUST HAD THEM
5 SEARCH BOTH.
6 Q NOW, ON THIS DOCUMENT IT SAYS THAT ODESSA GAINS
7 WAS NEVER MARRIED.
8 DO YOU SEE THAT?
9 A YES, I DO.
10 Q DOES THAT COMPORT WITH YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF
11 ODESSA GAINS' MARITAL STATUS?
12 A YES.
13 Q IT ALSO SAYS THAT SHE LIVED AT 8625 12TH AVENUE
14 IN LOS ANGELES AT HER DEATH.
15 DOES THAT COMFORT WITH YOUR UNDERSTANDING?
16 A THAT IS CORRECT, YES.
17 Q AND IT ALSO REFERS TO HER AS A HOMEMAKER.
18 DOES THAT COMPORT WITH YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF
19 HER --
20 A YES.
21 Q -- STATUS?
22 A YES.
23 Q IT SAYS THAT SHE WAS A HOMEMAKER FOR 60 YEARS.
24 WAS SHE A HOMEMAKER DURING THE TIME YOU KNEW HER
25 FROM 1980 FORWARD?
26 A ABSOLUTELY.
27 MS. BURRELL: ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR.
28

29
1 (PAUSE IN THE PROCEEDINGS.)
2
3 MS. BURRELL: NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.
4 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
5 ANY FURTHER EXAMINATION?
6 MR. RANDALL:: YES, YOUR HONOR, BRIEFLY.
7
8 CROSS-EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. RANDALL:
10 Q MR. FULLER, YOU STATED THAT DORIS FULLER AND
11 ROBERT FULLER ISOLATED YOUR FATHER AFTER HE MOVED TO DORIS'
12 HOUSE; IS THAT CORRECT?
13 A THAT'S CORRECT.
14 Q WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "ISOLATE"?
15 A WELL, YOU CALL OVER THERE, DORIS WOULD NEVER
16 ANSWER. IT GOT TO THE POINT WHERE MY NEPHEW THAT LIVES IN
17 NORTH CAROLINA OR SOUTH -- BACK EAST, HE EVEN SENT TWO
18 CERTIFIED LETTERS ADDRESSING DORIS AND ROBERT ON HOW HE
19 WANTED TO SPEAK WITH HIS GRANDFATHER AND HOW HE WOULD -- HE
20 WANTED THEM TO ALLOW HIM TO SPEAK TO HIS GRANDFATHER.
21 AND WHEN I WOULD CALL, THEY WOULD NEVER PICK UP.
22 Q MR. FULLER, ROBERT FULLER TESTIFIED TO THE FACT
23 THAT THERE WAS SOME CONTENTION BETWEEN YOUR FATHER AND YOUR
24 YOUNGEST SISTER.
25 IS THAT SANDRA?
26 A YES.
27 Q WERE YOU AWARE OF PROBLEMS BETWEEN SANDRA AND
28 YOUR FATHER?

30
1 A ABSOLUTELY NOT. SANDRA, SHE COULD BARELY WALK.
2 SHE WOULD GO OVER TO DAD'S HOUSE TWO OR THREE TIMES A WEEK
3 ON HER WALKER. SHE WOULD TRY TO DO ALL SHE COULD FOR HIM.
4 THAT IS JUST SIMPLY NOT THE CASE. THEY WERE VERY CLOSE TO
5 ONE ANOTHER.
6 AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, WHEN DAD WAS WITH ME,
7 SANDRA CAME BY TO SEE DAD. WE WENT TO TAKE HER HOME AND HE
8 WAS HEARTBROKEN TO SEE WHERE SHE WAS LIVING AT.
9 Q WAS THERE SOME DISCUSSION BETWEEN -- TO YOUR
10 KNOWLEDGE, WAS THERE SOME DISCUSSION BETWEEN SANDRA AND YOUR
11 FATHER REGARDING THE HOUSE ON BELL HAVEN?
12 A THE HOUSE ON BELHAVEN, NO.
13 Q TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WAS THERE ANY INCIDENTS
14 WHEREBY SANDRA WAS TRYING TO HAVE HER NAME PUT ON YOUR
15 FATHER'S HOUSE ON BELHAVEN?
16 A THIS WAS TOTAL NEWS TO ME TODAY. I HAVE NEVER
17 HEARD OF THAT BEFORE.
18 MR. RANDALL:: NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.
19 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
20 CROSS EXAMINATION.
21 MR. LAK: YOUR HONOR, WOULD IT BE A GOOD TIME -- I WAS
22 GOING TO SUGGEST, PERHAPS, A LUNCH BREAK AND THEN PICK UP
23 CROSS EXAMINATION AFTER THAT.
24 THE COURT: THAT'S FINE.
25 ALL RIGHT. WE'LL TAKE A BREAK UNTIL 1:30. I'LL
26 SEE COUNSEL THEN. THE WITNESS IS EXCUSED UNTIL 1:30.
27 THE WITNESS: OKAY, THANK YOU.
28

31
1 (THE NOON RECESS WAS TAKEN UNTIL
2 1:30 P.M. ON THE SAME DAY.)
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
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32
1 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, MAY 24, 2011
2 AFTERNOON SESSION
3 DEPARTMENT CE-99 HON. MARVIN M. LAGER, JUDGE
4 -O0O-
5 (STEPHANIE BAKER, OFFICIAL REPORTER)
6
7 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
8 COUNSEL ARE BACK AT THIS TIME. MAY WE HAVE OUR
9 WITNESS BACK ON THE STAND.
10 MS. BURRELL: YES.
11 THE COURT: YOU ARE REMINDED YOU'RE STILL UNDER OATH.
12 WE ARE ABOUT TO HEAR CROSS EXAMINATION. YOU MAY
13 PROCEED.
14 HAVE A SEAT, PLEASE.
15 THE WITNESS: OH, OKAY. THANK YOU.
16 MR. LAK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
17
18 CROSS-EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. LAK
20 Q MR. FULLER, YOU HAVE TESTIFIED EARLIER TODAY
21 THAT YOUR PARENTS FILING FOR DIVORCE IN 1968 WAS A TOTAL
22 SURPRISE; IS THAT CORRECT?
23 A YES.
24 Q SO IF I WERE TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY WITH
25 PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 13.
26 MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
27 THE COURT: YES.
28

33
1 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
2
3 THE WITNESS: YES, I HAVE SEEN THAT.
4 BY MR. LAK
5 Q DO YOU SEE THE DATE IN THE UPPER LEFT-HAND
6 CORNER?
7 A YES.
8 Q WHAT IS THAT DATE, PLEASE?
9 A JANUARY 26TH, 1968.
10
11 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO COUNSEL.)
12
13 BY MR. LAK
14 Q SO IN THE MONTHS PRECEDING THIS DOCUMENT, YOU
15 WERE UNAWARE OF YOUR PARENTS' DIFFICULTIES?
16 A I WAS VERY YOUNG AT THE TIME AND I KNEW THAT
17 THEY WERE HAVING MARITAL PROBLEMS, BUT I HAD NO IDEA THAT AN
18 ACTUAL DIVORCE HAD BEEN FILED.
19 Q BUT YOU WERE OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER WHEN YOUR
20 FATHER LEFT THE HOUSE BECAUSE YOU WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL AT THE
21 TIME.
22 A OH, ABSOLUTELY. I REMEMBER THE DAY THAT
23 ROBERT KENNEDY WAS SHOT AND HOW DAD RAN IN MY ROOM TO GET ME
24 UP TO LOOK AT T.V. THAT WAS IN JUNE.
25 Q AND THAT'S -- BUT NEVERTHELESS, THE NEWS OF YOUR
26 PARENTS DIVORCE OR DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS WAS A SURPRISE?
27 A IT WAS.
28 Q OKAY.

34
1 A YEAH. I MEAN, I DIDN'T FIND OUT ABOUT THAT
2 UNTIL RECENTLY.
3 Q OKAY.
4 SO THEN HOW IS IT THAT YOU -- LET ME JUST ASK
5 ANOTHER QUESTION. BUT THEN YOU SAY LATER IN '68, THEY DID
6 RECONCILE?
7 A WELL, THERE WAS A BRIEF PERIOD WHERE THEY WERE
8 HAVING MARITAL PROBLEMS, LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE
9 MARRIED DO, AND I WAS ASKED TO STAY WITH MY SISTER SANDRA
10 FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, BUT I GOT ILL. THEY WERE
11 WORKING ON THEIR MARRIAGE. WE HAD A LITTLE SMALL TWO
12 BEDROOM AND SO I STAYED WITH SANDRA FOR A FEW WEEKS. AND
13 THEN WHEN I GOT ILL, I HAD TO RETURN BACK HOME AGAIN BECAUSE
14 I HAD AN ASTHMA ATTACK.
15 Q SO WHEN WAS THIS THAT YOU STAYED WITH YOUR
16 SISTER SANDRA?
17 A THIS HAD TO HAVE BEEN -- YOU KNOW WHAT, I CAN'T
18 RECALL. I KNOW THAT IT WAS -- I DON'T REMEMBER LEAVING FOR
19 SCHOOL, SO IT HAD BEEN TO HAVE BEEN IN THE SUMMER SOMETIME.
20 I CAN'T REMEMBER.
21 Q DECEMBER OF WHAT YEAR?
22 A NO, NOT DECEMBER. SUMMER.
23 Q I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T ENUNCIATE. IN THE SUMMER OF
24 WHAT YEAR?
25 A 1968.
26 Q SO IF YOU WERE ASKED TO LEAVE SO THAT YOUR
27 PARENTS COULD WORK ON THEIR MARRIAGE, THEN THE NEWS OF THEIR
28 DIVORCE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A SURPRISE?

35
1 A WELL, AS A 15-YEAR OLD, YOU KNOW, I WASN'T
2 THINKING ALONG THOSE LINES.
3 Q AND YET YOU HAVE TESTIFIED THAT, PRESUMABLY,
4 SOMETIME IN LATER 1968 THAT THINGS HAD RECONCILED AND ALL
5 WAS GOOD?
6 A YEAH.
7 Q OKAY.
8 SO MY QUESTION TO YOU, MR. FULLER, IS HOW CAN
9 YOU CONFIDENTLY TESTIFY TO THE STATUS OF YOUR PARENTS
10 MARRIAGE WHEN YOU HAD NO IDEA THAT THEY WERE EVEN FILING FOR
11 DIVORCE AND THAT IT TOOK YOU BY A TOTAL SURPRISE?
12 A HOW CAN I CONFIDENTLY TESTIFY TO THE STATUS OF
13 MY PARENTS MARRIAGE? WELL, I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW, AS A
14 15 YEAR-OLD CHILD, I COULDN'T. I FELT LIKE THEY WERE GOING
15 TO GO ON AND ON AND ON. IT WAS A SURPRISE TO ME WHEN DAD
16 MOVED OUT.
17 Q OKAY. SO --
18 A I'M LOOKING AT IT, NOT FROM A 58-YEAR OLD MALE,
19 I'M LOOKING AT FROM A 15-YEAR OLD CHILD AND THAT'S WHAT I
20 WAS AT THAT TIME.
21 Q BUT MY QUESTION IS THIS: WHEN THINGS WERE GOOD
22 OR LEADING UP TO THE MONTHS OF THIS DIVORCE PROCEEDING,
23 MONTHS PRECEDING THIS --
24 A EXCUSE ME, WHAT DATE WAS ON THAT DOCUMENT,
25 PLEASE?
26 Q I'LL LET YOU --
27 A WAS THAT JANUARY 26TH, 1968?
28 MR. LAK: MAY I APPROACH?

36
1 THE COURT: YES.
2
3 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS, THEN
4 BACK TO COUNSEL.)
5
6 THE WITNESS: OKAY.
7 BY MR. LAK
8 Q SO IN THE MONTHS -- YOU HAVE JUST TESTIFIED THAT
9 IN THE MONTHS PRECEDING THIS DATE, JANUARY 26, 1968 --
10 A I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE MONTHS PRECEDING
11 JANUARY 26TH, 1968. I SAID -- WE WERE TALKING -- WE WERE
12 DISCUSSING OR YOU WERE QUESTIONING ME IN REFERENCE TO THE
13 TIME PERIOD BEFORE DAD LEFT, RIGHT BEFORE HE LEFT, AND THAT
14 WAS NOT IN JANUARY OR PRIOR TO JANUARY OF 1968.
15 Q THE PARTIES HAD STIPULATED BEFORE TRIAL THAT
16 YOUR FATHER DID, IN FACT, LEAVE THE HOUSE IN 1968.
17 A THAT'S TRUE.
18 Q IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOUR FATHER LEFT
19 SOMETIME OCTOBER/NOVEMBER OF 1968?
20 A YES.
21 MR. LAK: I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH THE WITNESS,
22 YOUR HONOR.
23 THE COURT: YES.
24 MR. LAK: I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO MARK MY NEXT EXHIBIT AS
25 RESPONDENTS NUMBER 520, THAT CORRESPONDS TO 20 IN EVERYONE'S
26 BOOK. THESE ARE RESPONSES TO SPECIAL INTERROGATORIES.
27
28

37
1 (MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
2 RESPONDENTS' EXHIBIT 520, DOCUMENT.)
3
4 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
5
6 BY MR. LAK
7 Q DO YOU SEE YOUR ATTORNEY'S NAME AT THE TOP OF
8 THIS PAGE?
9 A YES, I DO.
10 Q DO YOU SEE THAT THIS PAGE IS CAPTIONED
11 (READING:) PETITIONER'S FIRST REQUEST FOR SPECIAL
12 INTERROGATORIES TO RESPONDENT THELSEY FULLER?
13 A YES.
14 Q OKAY.
15 DO YOU SEE THAT ON THE SECOND PAGE SPECIAL
16 INTERROGATORY NUMBER ONE?
17 A (READING:) PLEASE STATE YOUR DATE OF MARRIAGE TO
18 EDWINA FULLER AND DATE OF SEPARATION.
19 Q SO IT APPEARS FROM THIS THAT YOUR ATTORNEY IS
20 ASKING THELSEY THE DATE OF MARRIAGE AND THE DATE OF
21 SEPARATION?
22 A UH-HUH, YES.
23 Q I'LL COUNT THE PAGES FOR EVERYONE'S BENEFIT.
24 ON THE FIFTH PAGE DO YOU SEE MY NAME AT THE TOP
25 (READING:) LAW OFFICES OF DANIEL LAK?
26 A YES.
27 Q AND DO YOU SEE THE CAPTION (READING:) RESPONDENT
28 THELSEY FULLER'S RESPONSE TO PETITIONER'S SPECIAL

38
1 INTERROGATORIES?
2 A (READING:) RESPONSE TO PETITIONER STEVEN
3 FULLER'S SPECIAL INTERROGATORIES SET ONE.
4 Q OKAY.
5 AND THEN ON PAGE EIGHT, DO YOU SEE RESPONSE TO
6 SPECIAL INTERROGATORY NUMBER ONE?
7 A (READING:) DATE OF MARRIAGE, YES.
8 Q WOULD YOU PLEASE READ THAT FOR THE COURT.
9 A (READING:) DATE OF MARRIAGE OCTOBER 30TH, 1937,
10 DATE OF SEPARATION SPRING OF 1968.
11 Q OKAY.
12 SO IT APPEARS FROM --
13 A MAY I ASK --
14 Q SO IT APPEARS FROM YOUR ATTORNEY'S SPECIAL
15 INTERROGATORY ASKING FOR THELSEY'S OPINION OF THE DATE OF
16 MARRIAGE AND DATE OF SEPARATION THAT HIS ANSWER WAS THE DATE
17 OF SEPARATION WAS SPRING OF 1968.
18 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, THIS LACKS
19 FOUNDATION. THERE'S --
20 THE COURT: GO AHEAD.
21 MS. BURRELL: THERE'S BEEN NO FOUNDATION FOR THIS.
22 THERE'S BEEN NO EVIDENCE THAT THIS WAS VERIFIED BY
23 THELSEY FULLER OR THAT -- MR. LAK IS ATTEMPTING TO ENTER
24 TESTIMONY OR EVIDENCE THAT'S GIVEN BY THELSEY FULLER, NOT BY
25 ANYBODY ELSE, WITHOUT LAYING A FOUNDATION FOR THE
26 CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH THIS WAS DONE, WHETHER THIS
27 DOCUMENT WAS VERIFIED BY MR. FULLER.
28 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

39
1 BY MR. LAK
2 Q WHEN YOUR FATHER -- WHERE DID YOUR FATHER MOVE
3 TO IN 1968 WHEN HE LEFT THE HOUSE?
4 A YOU'RE SPEAKING AS I KNOW OF -- WHAT I KNOW NOW
5 OR ARE YOU SPEAKING OF AS A 15-YEAR OLD? BECAUSE AS A
6 15-YEAR OLD I DIDN'T KNOW.
7 Q OKAY.
8 DID YOUR FATHER EVER MOVE BACK -- BASED ON YOUR
9 KNOWLEDGE AS A 15-YEAR OLD CHILD OR BASED ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE
10 TODAY, DID YOUR FATHER EVER MOVE BACK INTO THE BELHAVEN
11 RESIDENCE?
12 A NOT TO LIVE, BUT HE CAME AROUND FREQUENTLY.
13 Q SO HE NEVER CAME BACK TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE?
14 A NOT TO LIVE, NO.
15 Q BUT WE DO AGREE THAT HE DID LEAVE IN 1968?
16 A AT THE END OF THE YEAR, YES.
17 MR. LAK: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
18 THE COURT: YES.
19 MR. LAK: REFRESH THE WITNESS'S MEMORY WITH
20 PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 11.
21
22 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
23
24 THE WITNESS: UH-HUH.
25 MR. LAK: I'M ON PAGE FOUR.
26 BY MR. LAK
27 Q IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT THE TOP LEFT DATE THAT'S
28 CIRCLED IN RED THERE, WHAT IS THAT DATE?

40
1 A FEBRUARY 19TH, 1971.
2 Q DOES IT APPEAR THAT THAT'S WHEN YOUR FATHER
3 BEGAN CONTRIBUTIONS TO HIS RETIREMENT ACCOUNT?
4 A WELL, LET'S SEE. WELL, NOT EXACTLY BECAUSE THIS
5 HAS THE WORD HERE "CONVERSION" AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO FIND
6 OUT FROM THE POST OFFICE WHETHER THAT -- EXACTLY WHAT DOES
7 THAT MEAN. SO IT WAS CONVERTED FROM ONE THING TO THE OTHER,
8 THAT'S WHAT I UNDERSTAND CONVERSION MEANS.
9 Q DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT MEANS FOR SURE?
10 A I DON'T KNOW FROM THE POST OFFICE POINT OF VIEW,
11 BUT JUST READING THIS, IT WAS A CONVERSION FROM ONE THING TO
12 THE NEXT.
13 AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, IT SAYS IT RIGHT HERE
14 THE BALANCE BROUGHT FORWARD WAS $6,449.15. SO THIS WAS NOT
15 THE COMPLETE RECORD.
16 Q THANK YOU.
17 A SO THAT MEANS THERE COULD BE MORE MONEY IN THE
18 RETIREMENT.
19 Q IF IT'S NOT THE COMPLETE RECORD, THEN IT MAY
20 LACK PERTINENT INFORMATION THAT COULD BE HELPFUL TO THE
21 COURT, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?
22 A NO, I'M NOT SAYING THAT. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THE
23 DOCUMENT THAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR HAND RIGHT THERE SHOWS A
24 CONVERSION FROM ANOTHER ACCOUNT INTO THAT RETIREMENT ACCOUNT
25 SOME TYPE OF WAY OR MAYBE IT WAS FROM ONE RETIREMENT TO THE
26 OTHER.
27 Q DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THESE NOTATIONS MEAN?
28 A NO, I DON'T.

41
1 Q OKAY.
2 IF I CAN ALSO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE SAME
3 PAGE WITH THE AMOUNT IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT-HAND CORNER.
4 A THAT'S TOTAL CONTRIBUTIONS, YES. AND THAT ALSO
5 INCLUDES THE $6,449.15 BALANCE THAT WAS FORWARDED FROM
6 ANOTHER ACCOUNT.
7 Q AND WHAT ARE YOU BASING THAT OPINION ON?
8 A RIGHT UP HERE, THERE IT IS RIGHT THERE
9 (INDICATING).
10 Q OKAY.
11 AND SO ARE YOU -- IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT THE
12 TOTAL CONTRIBUTIONS YOUR FATHER MADE TO HIS POSTAL
13 RETIREMENT ACCOUNT WAS 14,940?
14 A I CAN'T SAY THAT FOR CERTAIN, BUT IT CERTAINLY
15 LOOKS LIKE THAT ON THE DOCUMENT.
16 Q IS THERE ANY OTHER DOCUMENT YOU WOULD NEED TO
17 SAY WITH CERTAINTY WHETHER OR NOT THE AMOUNT OF TOTAL
18 CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR FATHER'S RETIREMENT? IS THERE ANOTHER
19 DOCUMENT THAT YOU COULD OBTAIN THAT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO SAY
20 WITH CERTAINTY WHAT THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF THE CONTRIBUTIONS
21 IS?
22 A THIS DOCUMENT WAS BY COURT ORDER TO THE POST
23 OFFICE AND THEY SENT WHAT THEY HAD.
24 Q IS THIS TOTAL CONTRIBUTIONS OR NOT?
25 A MAYBE IT'S TOTAL -- YEAH, OKAY. I CAN GO FOR
26 THAT, TOTAL CONTRIBUTIONS.
27 Q IS THAT -- I DON'T WANT YOU TO GUESS. I WANT
28 YOU TO --

42
1 A WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT AN ACCOUNTANT, BUT AT
2 THE SAME TIME I'M LOOKING AT THIS ONE SAYS IT WAS CONVERTED.
3 1971 TO 1980 IS NINE YEARS, AND I IMAGINE THAT HE
4 CONTRIBUTED THE 14,000 OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. IT
5 WASN'T JUST THAT NINE-YEAR PERIOD.
6 Q WELL, IF WE ARE IMAGINING WHAT CONTRIBUTIONS
7 ARE --
8 A WE ARE NOT IMAGINING ANYTHING. IF YOU LOOK AT
9 THAT DOCUMENT THERE --
10 Q I'M SORRY --
11 A -- THE VERY FIRST --
12 Q -- IF I COULD FINISH ASKING MY QUESTION.
13 A GO AHEAD.
14 Q WE EITHER KNOW WHAT THE TOTAL CONTRIBUTIONS ARE
15 OR WE DON'T. DO YOU KNOW THE TOTAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR
16 FATHER'S RETIREMENT?
17 A ACCORDING TO THAT DOCUMENT RIGHT THERE
18 (INDICATING), IT SAYS TOTAL CONTRIBUTIONS $14,490 OR
19 WHATEVER. SO I HAVE TO TAKE THEIR WORD FOR IT.
20 Q DO YOU HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THIS MAY NOT
21 BE A COMPLETE AND TOTAL ACCURATE RECORD?
22 A NO.
23 Q AND YET EARLIER YOU TESTIFIED -- IS IT YOUR
24 TESTIMONY THAT YOUR FATHER RECEIVED A TOTAL DISTRIBUTION
25 FROM HIS RETIREMENT OF APPROXIMATELY $427,000; IS THAT
26 CORRECT?
27 A NO, I DID NOT. THAT IS INCORRECT. WHAT I SAID
28 WAS, AND SHE CAN READ IT BACK FOR YOU, I SAID THAT HIS TOTAL

43
1 WAS BETWEEN 429,000 OR 426, AS I RECOLLECT.
2 Q SO WOULD IT BE SATISFACTORY TO YOU IF I JUST
3 SAID APPROXIMATELY 400,000 --
4 A PLUS.
5 Q -- PLUS OR MINUS?
6 A UH-HUH.
7 Q ALL RIGHT.
8 SO DOES THAT --
9 THE COURT: WAIT, HOLD ON. YES?
10 THE WITNESS: YES.
11 THE COURT: GO AHEAD.
12 BY MR. LAK
13 Q SO THEN LOOKING AT THIS DOCUMENT AS OF 1971 WITH
14 THAT BALANCE CARRIED FORWARD, UP UNTIL 1971 THE TOTAL
15 CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR FATHER'S RETIREMENT WERE $6,449?
16 A UH-HUH.
17 Q IS THAT YES?
18 A LOOKING AT THAT, YES.
19 Q DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE CAN LOOK AT
20 THAT WOULD HELP US IN OUR RESEARCH ON WHAT THE TOTAL
21 RETIREMENT WAS?
22 A NOT AT THIS TIME.
23 Q THROUGH YOURSELF OR THROUGH YOUR COUNSEL, HAVE
24 YOU ANY OTHER EVIDENCE OR RECORDS TO SHOW?
25 A THIS WAS SENT TO US BY THE POST OFFICE UNDER
26 COURT ORDER AND THAT'S WHAT THEY PROVIDED.
27 Q I'M ASKING YOU, IS THERE ANY OTHER DOCUMENT THAT
28 YOU CAN SHOW EITHER THAT YOURSELF OR THROUGH YOUR COUNSEL

44
1 HAVE OBTAINED THAT CAN GIVE US A MORE CLEARER PICTURE OF
2 YOUR FATHER'S RETIREMENT?
3 A NO.
4 Q SO FROM THE PERIOD 1971, YOUR FATHER STARTED
5 WITH APPROXIMATELY $6,449, NINE YEARS LATER IT CAN
6 ACCUMULATED TO 14,940.
7 DID HE RETIRE IN 1980?
8 A YES.
9 Q OKAY.
10 SO HE CONTRIBUTES A TOTAL OF 14,940 AND YET
11 SOMEHOW OVER THE COURSE OF THE REST OF HIS LIFE HE RECEIVES
12 A TOTAL OF $400,000 IN PAYMENTS?
13 A UH-HUH.
14 Q DOES THAT SEEM LIKE AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF
15 INVESTMENT RETURN?
16 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
17 THE WITNESS: YEAH, AND I HAVE NO IDEA.
18 THE COURT: THE ANSWER --
19 THE WITNESS: THAT'S HIS CONTRIBUTION, THAT'S NOT --
20 I'M SORRY.
21 THE COURT: IT'S ALL RIGHT. THE OBJECTION IS
22 SUSTAINED. IT'S SPECULATIVE.
23 BY MR. LAK
24 Q FROM THIS DOCUMENT CAN YOU, AND I'LL BE HAPPY TO
25 GIVE IT BACK TO YOU, TELL ME EXACTLY WHEN YOUR FATHER
26 STARTED MAKING CONTRIBUTIONS TO HIS RETIREMENT?
27
28

45
1 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS, THEN
2 BACK TO COUNSEL.)
3
4 THE WITNESS: THAT DOCUMENT THERE DOESN'T HAVE THE
5 CONVERSION, WHATEVER THEY CONVERTED IT FROM. I DON'T
6 REMEMBER SEEING THE DATE. SO I WOULD SAY I DON'T RECALL.
7 BY MR. LAK
8 Q WELL, THE QUESTION IS -- CALLS FOR A YES OR NO
9 ANSWER. DOES THIS DOCUMENT TELL US WHEN YOUR FATHER BEGAN
10 CONTRIBUTIONS TO HIS RETIREMENT?
11 A NO, IT DOES NOT.
12 Q BUT WE CAN TELL FROM THIS DOCUMENT AT LEAST
13 CONTRIBUTIONS BEGAN IN 1971, OR THERE WERE CONTRIBUTIONS
14 MADE IN 1971.
15 A IT ALSO TELLS YOU THERE WERE CONTRIBUTIONS MADE
16 PRIOR TO 1971.
17 Q BUT MY QUESTION -- I'M GOING MOVE TO STRIKE THAT
18 ANSWER AS NON-RESPONSIVE.
19 THE COURT: IT IS RESPONSIVE. I DON'T THINK WE ARE
20 GOING ANYWHERE ASKING HIM WHAT IT SAYS IN THE DOCUMENT. I
21 CAN READ THE DOCUMENT. IT SHOWS A BALANCE FORWARD. I DON'T
22 KNOW IF THE BALANCE WAS CONTRIBUTED THE DAY OF THAT DATE. I
23 DON'T KNOW WHERE THE BALANCE CAME FROM. I HAVE NO
24 INFORMATION ABOUT IT. IT'S ABSOLUTELY CLEAR.
25 GO ON, PLEASE.
26 BY MR. LAK
27 Q SO FROM THIS DOCUMENT, THE ONLY CERTAIN
28 CONTRIBUTION WE CAN CONCLUDE IS THAT CONTRIBUTIONS WERE MADE

46
1 FROM YOUR FATHER'S -- TO YOUR FATHER'S RETIREMENT ABOUT FOUR
2 YEARS AFTER HE MOVED OUT OF THE HOUSE?
3 A PARDON? REPEAT THE QUESTION, PLEASE.
4 Q THE ONLY CERTAIN -- DATE CERTAIN THAT WE CAN
5 ESTABLISH THAT CONTRIBUTIONS WERE MADE INTO YOUR FATHER'S
6 RETIREMENT ACCOUNT WERE BEGINNING IN '71, FOUR YEARS AFTER
7 HE LEFT THE BELL HAVEN RESIDENCE?
8 A WELL, WHEN YOU USE THE WORD "CERTAIN,"
9 THERE'S -- THIS DOCUMENT HAS A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY, YOU KNOW,
10 THE -- A LITTLE, YOU KNOW -- NO. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS
11 CONVERTED FROM, JUST LIKE THE JUDGE JUST SAID.
12 Q SO IN KEEPING WITH YOUR COMMENTS THAT THIS
13 DOCUMENT HAS A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY, IF I COULD ASK YOU TO
14 TURN TO THE LAST PAGE. AND, AGAIN, I'LL BRING IT TO YOU FOR
15 REFRESHMENT.
16
17 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS, THEN
18 BACK TO COUNSEL.)
19
20 BY MR. LAK
21 Q IF THIS DOCUMENT --
22 A EXCUSE ME. CAN YOU BRING THAT BACK, PLEASE.
23
24 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
25
26 MR. LAK: YOU CAN HOLD ON TO IT, IF YOU LIKE.
27 THE WITNESS: OH, OKAY.
28

47
1 BY MR. LAK
2 Q IF THE DOCUMENT HAS A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY, HOW DO
3 WE EXPECT THE COURT -- HOW CERTAIN SHOULD THE COURT FEEL
4 ABOUT THAT PAGE?
5 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE.
6 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
7 BY MR. LAK
8 Q ARE YOU CERTAIN THE NUMBERS ON THAT PAGE ARE
9 100 PERCENT ABSOLUTELY CORRECT?
10 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR -- WELL, WITHDRAWN.
11 THE WITNESS: I WOULD SAY SO. IT WAS CERTIFIED BY THE
12 CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE. SHE SIGNED HER NAME HERE
13 AND SHE PRINTED OUT WHAT THE COMPUTER SYSTEM HAD OF DAD'S
14 RETIREMENT.
15 AND, YOU KNOW, MY PARENTS, EVEN THROUGH THE
16 '70'S, THEY WERE STILL -- HE WAS STILL COMING BY, THEY WERE
17 STILL SEEING EACH OTHER. SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN
18 ESTABLISH THIS, YOU KNOW, LIKE WHATEVER YOU'RE HEADING FOR
19 HERE.
20 BY MR. LAK
21 Q YOU HAVE TESTIFIED THAT THIS DOCUMENT IS
22 UNCERTAIN AND I'M ASKING --
23 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.
24 THE COURT: WHAT DOCUMENT?
25 MR. LAK: THIS ENTIRE PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 11.
26 THE COURT: I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT HE TESTIFIED TO.
27 BY MR. LAK
28 Q DID YOU TESTIFY THAT THE PAGE FOUR -- IF YOU

48
1 FLIP BACK TO THE PAGE WITH THE RED CIRCLES. IS THAT THE
2 PAGE YOU WERE REFERRING TO WHEN YOU SAID IT WAS UNCERTAIN?
3 A WHEN I SAID IT WAS UNCERTAIN, I WAS REFERRING TO
4 THE BALANCE, THE CONVERSION. THE VERY FIRST ROW THAT SAYS
5 CONVERSION 6,449, WHATEVER IT WAS, THAT IS WHERE IT IS
6 UNCERTAINTY AS FAR AS WHERE THOSE FUNDS COME FROM, WERE THEY
7 OVER -- AND THEN THE OTHER THING I DON'T SEE ON HERE WOULD
8 BE THE CONTRIBUTION FROM THE POST OFFICE. I'M NOT QUITE
9 SURE HOW THAT WORKS, BUT THAT WAS HIS TOTAL CONTRIBUTION.
10 Q SO IS THERE INFORMATION LACKING IN THAT EXHIBIT
11 THAT WOULD HELP US TO HAVE A CLEARER PICTURE OF HOW MUCH
12 YOUR FATHER RECEIVED?
13 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.
14 THE COURT: RECEIVED?
15 MR. LAK: WAS PAID.
16 THE COURT: I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE QUESTION IS. ASK IT
17 AGAIN, PLEASE.
18 BY MR. LAK
19 Q IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT THERE MAY BE SOME MORE
20 INFORMATION FROM THE UNITED STATES POST OFFICE THAT WOULD
21 GIVE A MORE CLEAR AND ACCURATE PICTURE OF THE AMOUNT OF YOUR
22 FATHER'S RETIREMENT?
23 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.
24 MR. LAK: IT'S A QUESTION.
25 THE COURT: I DON'T THINK THIS SHOWS INCOME, OKAY? I
26 DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO. IS THERE ANY PLACE
27 THAT SHOWS HOW MUCH HE RECEIVED?
28 MR. LAK: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M GETTING AT,

49
1 YOUR HONOR. THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT. THE WITNESS HAS SAID
2 ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS JUST WITHIN THE LAST FIVE MINUTES THAT
3 QUOTE UNQUOTE, AND WE CAN HAVE THE REPORTER READ BACK TO US,
4 THIS DOCUMENT IS UNCERTAIN AND I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT
5 PART OF THIS DOCUMENT IS UNCERTAIN. HE HAS JUST --
6 THE COURT: UNDER 352 OF THE EVIDENCE CODE, I'M
7 DIRECTING COUNSEL TO MOVE ON TO ANOTHER AREA OF INQUIRY.
8 MR. LAK: OKAY.
9 THE COURT: I CAN SEE THE DOCUMENT, I CAN SEE WHAT IT
10 SAYS AND DOESN'T SAY. WE ARE NOT GETTING ANYWHERE.
11 PROCEED.
12 MR. LAK: MR. FULLER, IF YOU WOULD TURN TO THE LAST
13 PAGE OF THAT EXHIBIT, PLEASE.
14 THE WITNESS: I'M HERE.
15 BY MR. LAK
16 Q IS THERE A NAME -- THERE'S A NAME AT THE BOTTOM
17 OF THE PAGE.
18 A UH-HUH.
19 Q DO YOU SEE THAT? WHAT IS THE NAME?
20 A BONNIE SMITH.
21 Q OKAY.
22 AT THE VERY, VERY BOTTOM OF THE PAGE, DOES IT
23 LOOK LIKE THAT DOCUMENT HAS BEEN FAXED?
24 A YES.
25 Q OKAY.
26 WHAT IS THE NAME AT THE TOP OF THAT PAGE IN THE
27 FAX SIGNATURE?
28 A OH, THAT'S ANTHONY MARTIN.

50
1 Q WHO IS ANTHONY MARTIN?
2 A HE'S A CPA. HE WAS MY SISTER'S ATTORNEY
3 RELATING TO THIS CASE.
4 Q OKAY.
5 AND WHICH SISTER'S ATTORNEY?
6 A SHIRLEY RITCHEY.
7 Q OKAY.
8 IS THIS YOUR COUNSEL'S PETITION? I'M SORRY, IS
9 THIS YOUR COUNSEL'S EXHIBIT?
10 A YES.
11 Q OKAY.
12 WHY ARE YOU RECEIVING THIS EXHIBIT FROM
13 SHIRLEY RITCHEY'S ATTORNEY?
14 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, RELEVANCE.
15 MR. LAK: I HAVE TO LAY FOUNDATION, IF THE COURT WOULD
16 PERMIT.
17 THE COURT: GO AHEAD.
18 BY MR. LAK
19 Q DID YOU FILE A LAWSUIT AGAINST SHIRLEY RITCHEY
20 IN THE ESTATE OF EDWINA FULLER?
21 A YES.
22 Q WHAT WAS THE REQUEST FOR DAMAGES? WHAT WAS THE
23 NATURE OF THE LAWSUIT?
24 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, RELEVANCE.
25 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
26 BY MR. LAK
27 Q WHY WERE YOU SUING SHIRLEY RITCHEY?
28 A WAS I SUING HER? WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS --

51
1 IT'S A LONG STORY. SHIRLEY MOVED INTO 1916 NORTH BELHAVEN
2 IN 1999, OKAY? AND MOM STAYED WITH ME. SHE MOVED OUT OF MY
3 HOME INTO THE BELHAVEN PROPERTY. MOM WAS WITH ME. AS YOU
4 KNOW, MOM WAS A PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIC AND SHE NEEDED TO BE
5 IN, YOU KNOW, AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE SOMEONE WOULD BE WITH
6 HER.
7 SO THREE YEARS CAROL STAYED IN THE PROPERTY AND
8 DIDN'T PAY ANY RENT WHATSOEVER. AT THE TIME IT WAS OKAY
9 WITH ME BECAUSE I WAS TAKING CARE OF MY MOTHER AND I HAD THE
10 FUNDS TO DO SO. BUT THEN IN 2003, MOM HAD A STROKE. AND
11 WHEN SHE HAD HER STROKE AND CAME HOME, THAT MEANT THAT SHE
12 NEEDED 24-HOUR CARE.
13 I WORK -- I WAS WORKING FULL TIME AND ALSO
14 ATTENDING COLLEGE AT NIGHT. SO THAT MEANT THAT I HAD TO PAY
15 SOMEONE OUT OF MY OWN POCKET TO COME IN DURING THE DAYTIME
16 TO TAKE CARE OF MY MOTHER WHILE I WAS AT WORK. I HIRED
17 CAREGIVERS TO COME IN. HER CHECK THAT MOM WAS GETTING IN
18 WAS NOT ENOUGH TO COVER THE EXPENSE OF HAVING SOMEONE AT
19 HOME PAYING THEM $12 AN HOUR. I WAS GONE 50 HOURS OUT OF
20 THE WEEK, AT LEAST 200 HOURS OUT OF THE MONTH.
21 SO I APPROACHED MY FATHER AND I SAID, I CAN NO
22 LONGER AFFORD TO PAY CAREGIVERS WITHOUT RECEIVING SOME
23 INCOME FROM THE BELHAVEN PROPERTY. SO DAD AGREED, THE
24 FAMILY MEMBERS AGREED, THERE WAS A LITTLE RESISTANCE FROM
25 CAROL, BUT SHE EVENTUALLY AGREED AND WE AGREED TO AN AMOUNT
26 OF $350. ALL RIGHT?
27 SO AS TIME WENT ON -- YOU KNOW, 350 STILL WAS
28 NOT ENOUGH TO COVER THE CAREGIVER EXPENSES. I THINK I PUT

52
1 ALL OF THAT IN THE FINANCIAL ACCOUNTING. SO AS TIME WENT ON
2 I PURCHASED A NEW HOME, AT THE TIME THAT I COULD AFFORD, AND
3 I MADE, YOU KNOW, A BAD INVESTMENT. YOU KNOW, WHEN THE
4 STOCK MARKET FELL, IT WENT DOWN AND I LOST A LOT OF MONEY
5 AND THEN I COULDN'T AFFORD MY HOUSE PAYMENT ANYMORE.
6 SO I ASKED DAD IF I COULD MOVE MOM BACK TO THE
7 BELHAVEN PROPERTY AND GIVE, YOU KNOW, CAROL SIX MONTHS TO
8 RELOCATE. THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, HE SAID NO. I APPROACHED HIM
9 AT LEAST THREE TIMES AND I WAS TOLD NO. AND MEANWHILE, ME
10 AND MOM WERE ON THE VERGE OF FORECLOSURE AND OUT ON THE
11 STREET.
12 SO WE STARTED TO SEE THE FAIR MARKET VALUE FOR
13 THE HOME IN COMPTON WAS BETWEEN $1,200 AND 1,400 A MONTH AND
14 HALF OF THAT, THE LOWER AMOUNT, THE 1200, HALF OF THAT WAS
15 600. AT THE TIME, I THINK IT WAS HER CHILDREN WERE GOING TO
16 COVER HER RENT WHEN SHE WAS PAYING $500 AT A PLACE IN THE
17 CRENSHAW DISTRICT. SO I FIGURED THAT THEY CAN CHIP IN AND
18 COVER THE OTHER $300. BUT WHEN I APPROACHED THAT, I GOT
19 CALLED OUT OF MY NAME, AND SO FORTH.
20 AND SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS WE ASKED IF SHE
21 WOULD -- IF THE RENT COULD BE INCREASED TO 600 A MONTH,
22 WHICH WOULD ALLOW US -- ALLOW ME TO CONTINUE TO PAY THE
23 CAREGIVERS AND PAY THE MORTGAGE ON MY HOME WITHOUT HAVING TO
24 BE OUT ON THE STREET. SO BEING THAT IF I COULD NOT MOVE MOM
25 BACK INTO HER OWN HOME, THEN THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE IS TO GET
26 SOME MONEY FROM THE ESTATE TO HELP PAY WHERE SHE'S AT. AND
27 THAT WAS THE BASIS OF THAT SUIT.
28 Q SO YOU SUED YOUR SISTER SHIRLEY RITCHEY FOR

53
1 INCREASED RENT ON THE BELHAVEN PROPERTY?
2 A UH-HUH, YES.
3 Q AND THIS WAS AFTER YOU LOST MONEY ON YOUR OWN
4 REAL ESTATE PURCHASE?
5 A YES.
6 Q AND YOU WERE NOT ABLE TO MAKE YOUR OWN HOUSE
7 PAYMENTS?
8 A WELL, THE WAY THAT I WAS DOING THINGS, MOM
9 WASN'T REALLY -- YOU KNOW, THE MONEY THAT I WAS GETTING IN
10 WAS GOING TO CAREGIVERS. IT WAS FAR EXCEEDING ANYTHING THAT
11 SHE WAS BRINGING IN.
12 Q BUT YOU SUED YOUR SISTER SHIRLEY RITCHEY AFTER
13 YOU COULDN'T MAKE YOUR OWN HOUSE PAYMENT?
14 A WELL, FOR $600 A MONTH. I WAS CHARGING MOM 500
15 AND, YOU KNOW 600, YES.
16 Q YES, YOU SUED YOUR SISTER AFTER YOU COULDN'T
17 MAKE YOUR HOUSE PAYMENT, IS THAT YOUR ANSWER?
18 A NO, THAT'S NOT MY ANSWER. MY ANSWER IS IS THAT
19 WE GOT IN DISPUTE OVER THE RENT BECAUSE I COULDN'T MOVE MOM
20 BACK INTO HER HOME IN BELHAVEN, CAROL WAS TELLING -- SAYING
21 NO, SHE WASN'T GOING TO GO ANYWHERE. AND WE JUST COULD NOT
22 WORK -- AS A FAMILY, WE COULD NOT COME TOGETHER AND MAKE AN
23 AGREEMENT AS WHAT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST FOR EVERYONE. SO
24 THAT'S THE BASIS OF THE WHOLE THING.
25 Q IS THE LAWSUIT STILL PENDING AGAINST YOUR
26 SISTER?
27 A NO.
28 Q IS SHE PAYING $600 A MONTH IN RENT?

54
1 A NO, SHE'S NOT.
2 Q IS SHE PAYING $300 A MONTH IN RENT?
3 A SHE'S PAYING 300.
4 Q SO WHY WAS THE LAWSUIT AGAINST YOUR SISTER
5 DROPPED IF SHE DID NOT INCREASE THE PAYMENT RENT?
6 A WELL, IT WAS JUST TOO MUCH GOING ON AT THE SAME
7 TIME. I'M ALSO PAYING ATTORNEY FEES AND STUFF. I GOT TO
8 KEEP MOM GOING AND I GOT TO KEEP THAT PLACE GOING. I GOT TO
9 KEEP EVERYTHING IN MOTION BECAUSE MOM IS TOO OLD -- AT THIS
10 POINT SHE'S TOO OLD TO MOVE. SO I COULDN'T EVEN -- IF THE
11 HOUSE WAS IN PERFECT CONDITION ON BELHAVEN, I COULDN'T EVEN
12 MOVE MOM BACK TO BELHAVEN BECAUSE SHE'S 93.
13 Q WHEN DID YOU -- SO DID YOU DROP THE LAWSUIT
14 AGAINST YOUR SISTER?
15 A ABSOLUTELY.
16 Q AND WHEN DID YOU DO THAT?
17 A BOY, IT'S BEEN A LITTLE WHILE. I CAN'T
18 REMEMBER.
19 Q WAS IT IN 2011?
20 A LET'S SEE, LET ME THINK. BOY, YOU'VE HAD THIS
21 CASE GOING ON FOR SO LONG, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT WAS WHAT.
22 MAYBE LATE 2010.
23 Q SO YOU DROPPED THE LAWSUIT AGAINST YOUR SISTER
24 LATE 2010?
25 A UH-HUH.
26 Q AND YOUR ATTORNEY HAS EXHIBITS FROM HER ATTORNEY
27 FAXED, AS WE HAVE SEEN THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?
28 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, RELEVANCE.

55
1 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
2 BY MR. LAK
3 Q DID YOU DROP THE LAWSUIT WITH YOUR SISTER SO
4 THAT SHE WOULD TESTIFY FAVORABLY FOR YOU IN THIS PROCEEDING?
5 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, SPECULATIVE.
6 THE WITNESS: OH, ABSOLUTELY NOT. HOW DARE YOU?
7 MR. RANDALL:: OBJECTION.
8 MR. LAK: I'LL WITHDRAW THE QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.
9 BY MR. LAK
10 Q DO YOU HAVE -- AS WE SIT HERE TODAY, DO YOU HAVE
11 ANY EXHIBITS THAT YOU CAN SHOW THE COURT DOCUMENTING INCOME
12 RECEIVED BY THELSEY FULLER AT ANY TIME?
13 A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)
14 Q IF COULD YOU VERBALIZE FOR THE COURT. THE COURT
15 REPORTER CAN'T TYPE THAT.
16 A HERE IT IS RIGHT HERE FROM THE POST OFFICE
17 (INDICATING).
18 THE COURT: REFERRING TO EXHIBIT --
19 THE WITNESS: EXHIBIT 11.
20 BY MR. LAK
21 Q DO YOU HAVE BANK STATEMENTS FROM YOUR FATHER'S
22 ACCOUNTS SHOWING THOSE ALLEGED PAYMENTS BEING MADE INTO HIS
23 ACCOUNT?
24 THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT A MINUTE. EXHIBIT 11 SHOWS
25 PAYMENTS OR IT JUST SHOWS THE EXISTENCE OF THE PENSION?
26 THE WITNESS: IT SHOWS THE EXISTENCE OF THE PENSION
27 AND WHAT IT DOES IS, THE VERY LAST PAGE OF IT --
28 THE COURT: YES.

56
1 THE WITNESS: -- IT GIVES YOU A MONTH -- THE MONTH
2 AMOUNT THAT HE WAS ACTUALLY RECEIVING. LIKE, IF YOU GO DOWN
3 TO MARCH 1ST, 1980, IT SAYS 720; RIGHT? WELL, THAT WAS THE
4 AMOUNT WHEN HE STARTED RECEIVING PAYMENTS.
5 THE COURT: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
6 THE WITNESS: AND THEN APRIL, THEN MAY IT WAS STILL
7 720. IT DIDN'T CHANGE UNTIL SEPTEMBER 1980, THEN IT WENT UP
8 TO $775.
9 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
10 SO THE LAST PAGE OF THE EXHIBIT, THE ANSWER IS
11 THE LAST PAGE OF THE EXHIBIT SHOWS THE PAYMENTS OUT.
12 THE WITNESS: YES.
13 THE COURT: NEXT QUESTION, PLEASE.
14 BY MR. LAK
15 Q DO YOU HAVE ANY DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER
16 SHOWING THAT THELSEY FULLER RECEIVED THOSE PAYMENTS?
17 A SHOWING THAT HE ACTUALLY RECEIVED THE PAYMENT.
18 LIKE, A BANK STATEMENT?
19 Q YES.
20 A WE HAVE HIS BANK STATEMENTS, YES.
21 Q CAN YOU SUPPLY THOSE TO THE COURT? LET ME --
22 I'LL REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
23 ARE THEY AVAILABLE FOR EXHIBIT TODAY? HAVE YOU
24 SUPPLIED THEM TO THE COURT?
25 MS. BURRELL: NO, THEY ARE -- NO.
26 BY MR. LAK
27 Q AND ISN'T IT ODD THAT IF YOU HAVE INCOME
28 DOCUMENTATION, BANK STATEMENTS THAT THEY ARE NOT SUPPLIED AS

57
1 EXHIBITS?
2 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE.
3 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
4 BY MR. LAK
5 Q DO YOU HAVE TODAY AS WE SIT HERE PRESENTED TO
6 THE COURT, TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, ANY INCOME TAX
7 RETURNS FROM THELSEY FULLER?
8 A NO, I DO NOT.
9 Q SO IN YOUR OWN OPINION, IF YOU WERE TO DOCUMENT
10 ACTUAL INCOME RECEIVED BY YOUR FATHER, WHAT WOULD BE THE
11 BEST EVIDENCE YOU COULD RELY UPON?
12 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION IF
13 YOU'RE ASKING FOR HIS OPINION.
14 THE COURT: CALLS FOR A LAY OPINION OF WHICH HE IS NOT
15 QUALIFIED. THE COURT MAKES AND SUSTAINS ITS OWN OBJECTION.
16 BY MR. LAK
17 Q SO YOU DO NOT HAVE BANK STATEMENTS TO SHOW THE
18 COURT TODAY?
19 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.
20 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
21 BY MR. LAK
22 Q IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY TODAY -- YOU HAVE TESTIFIED
23 TODAY THAT -- I'LL REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
24 WHEN DID YOU FIRST MEET ODESSA GAINS?
25 A IT HAD TO HAVE BEEN EITHER 1980 OR LATE IN THE
26 1970'S. IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME AGO.
27 Q I'M ACTUALLY GOING TO COME BACK TO THIS LINE OF
28 QUESTIONING. I JUST HAVE ONE MORE FOLLOW-UP QUESTION ON THE

58
1 INCOME.
2 ARE YOU A SALARIED EMPLOYEE, SIR?
3 A YES.
4 Q DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GROSS
5 AND NET INCOME?
6 A YES.
7 Q DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOUR COMPANY SAYS THEY
8 PAID YOU A CERTAIN AMOUNT, YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE RECEIVED THAT
9 AMOUNT IN CASH?
10 A YES.
11 Q THAT THAT MAY HAVE BEEN SUBJECT TO TAXES?
12 A ABSOLUTELY.
13 Q OKAY.
14 LOOKING AT THE LAST PAGE OF THAT EXHIBIT, IS IT
15 YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU BELIEVE THOSE WERE PAYMENTS MADE TO
16 YOUR FATHER?
17 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
18 THE COURT: WHAT HE BELIEVES IS NOT RELEVANT.
19 SUSTAINED ON THAT BASIS.
20 MR. LAK: I'LL ASK YOU TO TURN TO THE LAST PAGE.
21 BY MR. LAK
22 Q WHAT DO THOSE NUMBERS MEAN TO YOU ON THAT PAGE?
23 I'LL REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
24 FROM THAT DOCUMENT, HOW MUCH DID YOUR FATHER
25 RECEIVE PER MONTH IN 1980?
26 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, THE DOCUMENT SPEAKS FOR
27 ITSELF.
28 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

59
1 MS. BURRELL: UNLESS YOU'RE ASKING FOR US TO READ IT
2 ALL OUT.
3 MR. LAK: I'M JUST -- I HAVE A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION AND
4 THE FOUNDATION IS REAL.
5 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
6 MR. LAK: OKAY.
7 BY MR. LAK
8 Q WHERE DID YOUR FATHER LIVE IN 1980?
9 A IN INGLEWOOD.
10 Q AND THE PRECISE ADDRESS, PLEASE.
11 A I WAS TRYING TO REMEMBER DID I KNOW HIS ADDRESS
12 IN 1980. HE LIVED IN INGLEWOOD. THE ADDRESS WAS 8625 12TH
13 AVENUE.
14 Q SO HE LIVED AT THE 12TH STREET PROPERTY?
15 A YES.
16 Q BETWEEN THE PERIODS OF 1980 AND 2007, DO YOU
17 KNOW IF YOUR FATHER HAD ELECTRICITY IN HIS HOUSE?
18 A WELL, I CAN MAKE THE ASSUMPTION THAT HE DID HAVE
19 ELECTRICITY.
20 Q DID YOUR FATHER HAVE RUNNING WATER IN THE HOUSE?
21 A I WOULD THINK SO.
22 Q DID YOUR FATHER HAVE GENERAL UTILITIES?
23 A I WOULD THINK SO.
24 Q IS IT SAFE TO ALSO ASSUME THAT YOUR FATHER
25 PURCHASED FOOD BETWEEN THE YEARS 1980 TO 2007?
26 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, RELEVANCE.
27 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
28 THE WITNESS: YES, HE PURCHASED FOOD.

60
1 MR. LAK: I'M SORRY?
2 THE WITNESS: YES.
3 MR. LAK: YES.
4 BY MR. LAK
5 Q SO YOUR FATHER HAD EXPENSES FROM 1980 TO 2007?
6 A YES.
7 Q AND YOU HAVE TESTIFIED EARLIER THAT YOUR FATHER
8 HAD APPROXIMATELY $400,000 IN THE CITIBANK ACCOUNT; IS THAT
9 CORRECT?
10 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.
11 MR. LAK: IF IT'S NOT CORRECT, THE WITNESS CAN ANSWER.
12 THE WITNESS: I NEVER -- I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING THAT
13 EVEN.
14 THE COURT: NEXT QUESTION, PLEASE.
15 BY MR. LAK
16 Q IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THIS AFTERNOON THAT WHEN
17 YOUR FATHER LEFT IN 1968, YOUR MOTHER SOUGHT COUNTY
18 ASSISTANCE?
19 A YES.
20 Q FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE?
21 A YES.
22 Q AND WHAT FORM DID THAT ASSISTANCE TAKE?
23 A YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW. I JUST REMEMBER HER
24 APPLYING. I HAVE A DOCUMENT WHERE SHE APPLIED, BUT I DON'T
25 KNOW THE EXACT FORM BECAUSE --
26 Q DO YOU KNOW THE APPROXIMATE AMOUNT?
27 A NO.
28 Q IS YOUR MOTHER RECEIVING INCOME NOW?

61
1 A YES.
2 Q WHAT FORM OF INCOME DOES SHE RECEIVE?
3 A SHE GETS MY FATHER'S SOCIAL SECURITY, WHICH IS
4 $385, AND SHE ALSO GETS SSI. SHE'S DISABLED.
5 Q AND HOW MUCH IS THAT?
6 A LET'S SEE, I KNOW 385 IS SOCIAL SECURITY. I
7 WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT HER BANK STATEMENTS TO GIVE YOU AN
8 EXACT FIGURE.
9 Q I HAVE THE LAST ACCOUNTING THAT YOU FILED WITH
10 YOUR MOTHER'S CONSERVATORSHIP. WOULD YOU LIKE TO LOOK AT
11 THAT TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY?
12 A OH, SURE. IT'S ON THERE.
13 MR. LAK: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
14 THE COURT: YES.
15 MR. LAK: I'LL MARK THIS EXHIBIT --
16 THE COURT: WELL, IF IT'S TO REFRESH HIS RECOLLECTION,
17 LET'S NOT MARK IT. IT WILL BE RETURNED, SO IT WON'T BE
18 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.
19
20 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
21
22 MR. LAK: FEEL FREE TO FLIP THROUGH THAT TO REFRESH
23 YOUR RECOLLECTION.
24 THE WITNESS: OKAY. ORIGINALLY -- THIS IS AN OLD
25 ACCOUNTING, BEFORE DAD PASSED AWAY. AND PRIOR TO HIS
26 PASSING, WHICH WAS IN AUGUST OF 2009, HER SOCIAL SECURITY
27 AMOUNT WAS $226. AND SHE GOT -- SHE STARTED OFF THE YEAR
28 2009 WITH $701 FROM THE SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY INCOME, WHICH

62
1 IS SSI, AND THEY LOWERED IT DOWN TO 644 AT THE END OF THE
2 YEAR SHE WAS RECEIVING FROM SSI.
3 BY MR. LAK
4 Q TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HOW LONG HAS YOUR
5 MOTHER BEEN RECEIVING SSI?
6 A OOH, DON'T KNOW. COULDN'T GIVE YOU A DATE ON
7 THAT.
8 Q HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN CONSERVATOR OF YOUR
9 MOTHER'S ESTATE?
10 A SINCE 2007.
11 Q HAS SHE BEEN RECEIVING SSI SINCE 2007?
12 A YES.
13 Q DOES YOUR MOTHER RECEIVE ANY OTHER FORM OF
14 INCOME?
15 A THE $300 A MONTH FROM CAROL.
16 Q AND HOW LONG HAS SHE BEEN RECEIVING THE $300 A
17 MONTH?
18 A SINCE 2003.
19 Q I'LL TAKE THAT BACK.
20
21 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO COUNSEL.)
22
23 BY MR. LAK
24 Q WHEN DID YOU FIRST MEET ODESSA GAINS,
25 MR. FULLER?
26 A I BELIEVE I ANSWERED THAT ALREADY.
27 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.
28 MR. LAK: WELL, IT'S --

63
1 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
2 MR. LAK: YOUR HONOR, THE WITNESS HAS GIVEN TWO
3 RESPONSES TO THAT QUESTION.
4 THE COURT: SO HE'S GIVEN TWO RESPONSES, IT'S STILL
5 THE SAME QUESTION. IF YOUR TALLY IS CORRECT.
6 BY MR. LAK
7 Q WHO WAS ODESSA GAINS IN RELATION TO YOUR FATHER?
8 A HIS GIRLFRIEND.
9 Q HIS LONG-TIME GIRLFRIEND OR RECENT ACQUAINTANCE?
10 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, VAGUE RECENT ACQUAINTANCE.
11 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
12 BY MR. LAK
13 Q HOW LONG DID YOUR FATHER KNOW ODESSA FOR?
14 A DON'T KNOW. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER I'M -- YOU
15 KNOW, I WAS YOUNG WHEN ALL THIS STUFF HAPPENED. I WAS VERY
16 YOUNG.
17 Q YOU HAD TESTIFIED EARLIER THAT YOU HAD MET
18 ODESSA AT YOUR DAD'S RETIREMENT PARTY. IS IT SAFE TO ASSUME
19 THAT HE AT LEAST KNEW HER FROM THAT DATE TO THE TIME OF HER
20 DEATH, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN --
21 A YES.
22 Q -- TWENTY-THREE YEARS?
23 A YES.
24 Q SO AT LEAST YOUR FATHER KNEW HER FOR 23 YEARS?
25 A YES.
26 Q OKAY.
27 WERE YOU CLOSE TO ODESSA?
28 A YES, SHE WAS -- YES. NOT CLOSE CLOSE, BUT --

64
1 Q NOT VERY CLOSE, BUT YOU KNEW WHO SHE WAS?
2 A ABSOLUTELY.
3 Q DID YOU ATTEND HER FUNERAL IN 2003 WHEN SHE
4 PASSED AWAY?
5 A YES.
6 Q WERE YOU A PALL BEARER AT THE FUNERAL?
7 A NO, I WAS NOT OR WAS I? OKAY, NO.
8 Q I'M GOING TO MARK THE NEXT EXHIBIT AS
9 RESPONDENT'S 509.
10 MR. LAK: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
11 THE COURT: YES.
12
13 (MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
14 RESPONDENTS' EXHIBIT 509, DOCUMENT.)
15
16 MR. LAK: I'M GOING TO CHARACTERIZE IT, GENERALLY, AS
17 A PAGE FROM ODESSA GAINS' OBITUARY.
18 THE WITNESS: YES.
19
20 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
21
22 BY MR. LAK
23 Q DO YOU SEE THE PARENTHESES IN RED ON THAT PAGE,
24 MR. FULLER?
25 A YES, 509.
26 Q UNDER THE PICTURE THAT'S ON THAT PAGE THERE'S A
27 PARAGRAPH. DO YOU SEE THAT?
28 A ON THE LEFT SIDE?

65
1 Q YES.
2 A YES.
3 Q CAN YOU READ THAT FOR THE COURT, PLEASE.
4 A (READING:) SHE LEAVES TO CHERISH HER MEMORY
5 HUSBAND, THELSEY FULLER, ONE GRANDDAUGHTER, A HOST OF NIECES
6 AND NEPHEWS AND STEPCHILDREN.
7 Q THANK YOU.
8
9 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO COUNSEL.)
10
11 BY MR. LAK
12 Q HAVE YOU BEEN TO THE CEMETERY WHERE YOUR FATHER
13 IS BURIED?
14 A HAVE I -- I WAS THERE THE DAY OF THE FUNERAL.
15 Q THE DAY OF YOUR FATHER'S FUNERAL?
16 A YES.
17 Q HAVE YOU BEEN BACK SINCE?
18 A NO.
19 Q OKAY.
20 DO YOU REMEMBER WHO IS BURIED NEXT TO YOUR
21 FATHER?
22 A I DON'T HAVE -- I DON'T KNOW.
23 Q DID YOU SEE --
24 A I HAVEN'T BEEN TO HIS BURIAL SITE.
25 Q YOU JUST WENT TO THE FUNERAL, YOU HAVEN'T BEEN
26 TO HIS BURIAL SITE?
27 A NO.
28 Q DID YOU KNOW THAT YOUR FATHER IS BURIED NEXT TO

66
1 ODESSA GAINS?
2 A ACCORDING TO MY BROTHER ROBERT IN HIS TESTIMONY.
3 Q I'M ASKING YOU, DID YOU KNOW?
4 A WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL HE SAID SO.
5 MR. LAK: I'M GOING TO ASK THAT THE ANSWER BE STRICKEN
6 AS NON-RESPONSIVE. I'M ASKING DID HE KNOW -- DID YOU KNOW
7 YOUR FATHER WAS BURIED NEXT TO ODESSA GAINS?
8 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT, IT'S DENIED. NEXT QUESTION.
9 BY MR. LAK
10 Q DID YOU KNOW THE CAPTION ON THE TOMBSTONE SAYS
11 HUSBAND AND WIFE?
12 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION.
13 THE WITNESS: I HAVE NEVER SEEN HIS TOMBSTONE.
14 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
15 BY MR. LAK
16 Q WHY HAVE YOU NOT VISITED THE GRAVESITE OF YOUR
17 FATHER?
18 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, RELEVANCE.
19 MR. LAK: THE RELEVANCE IS --
20 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
21 THE WITNESS: OKAY. I'M LIMITED IN THE AMOUNT OF TIME
22 I HAVE. I GO TO WORK, I TAKE CARE OF MOM WHEN I GET IN FROM
23 WORK. AND BURIAL SITES -- DAD, TO ME, IS NOT IN THAT GRAVE.
24 BY MR. LAK
25 Q SO YOUR WORK COMMITMENTS RESULT IN NOT ENOUGH
26 TIME TO VISIT YOUR FATHER'S GRAVE?
27 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE.
28 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

67
1 BY MR. LAK
2 Q YOU TESTIFIED EARLIER THAT THERE WERE SOME
3 DISPUTES AS TO THELSEY BEING YOUR FATHER?
4 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.
5 BY MR. LAK
6 Q IS THAT CORRECT?
7 DID YOU TESTIFY EARLIER TODAY THAT THERE WAS
8 SOME DISPUTES AS TO THELSEY BEING YOUR FATHER?
9 A WELL, THERE'S SOME QUESTIONS THAT WERE BROUGHT
10 ABOUT BY MY ELDEST SISTER.
11 Q AND WHO IS YOUR ELDEST SISTER?
12 A SHIRLEY RITCHEY.
13 Q SO SHIRLEY HAS RAISED THE ISSUE OF WHETHER OR
14 NOT THELSEY WAS ACTUALLY YOUR FATHER?
15 A UH-HUH.
16 Q ON WHAT GROUNDS WOULD SHE MAKE THAT CLAIM?
17 A DON'T KNOW. HE'S BEEN MY DAD FOR 58 YEARS.
18 MR. LAK: I WOULD LIKE TO REFRESH THE WITNESS' MEMORY
19 WITH PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT THREE. MAY I APPROACH,
20 YOUR HONOR?
21 THE COURT: YES.
22
23 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
24
25 BY MR. LAK
26 Q DO YOU SEE THAT THIS EXHIBIT APPEARS TO BE A
27 GRANT DEED?
28 A YES.

68
1 Q DO YOU SEE THAT YOUR FATHER'S NAME IS LISTED AS
2 AN UNMARRIED MAN?
3 A YES, I DO.
4 Q WHY DO YOU THINK YOUR FATHER TOLD THE ESCROW
5 COMPANY THAT HE WAS AN UNMARRIED MAN?
6 MR. RANDALL:: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
7 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
8 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
9 BY MR. LAK
10 Q OKAY.
11 DO YOU SEE THAT -- DO YOU SEE THE NAME OF
12 ODESSA GAINS ON THAT DEED, AS WELL?
13 A YES.
14 Q DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IS THE SAME ODESSA GAINS AS
15 ODESSA CONWAY, THAT MAY BE ONE OF HER OTHER ALIASES?
16 A YES.
17 Q THAT THEY ARE, IN FACT, ONE IN THE SAME PERSON?
18 A YES.
19 Q DO YOU SEE THE DESIGNATION THERE THAT SHE IS A
20 SINGLE MAN?
21 A YES.
22 Q OKAY.
23 SO DOES IT APPEAR THAT WHOEVER DRAFTED THIS
24 DOCUMENT MADE SOME ERRORS?
25 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
26 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
27 THE WITNESS: OKAY. IT APPEARS TO ME THAT THEY WERE
28 JUST TRYING TO CONCEAL THE PURCHASE OF THE PROPERTY.

69
1 BY MR. LAK
2 Q WHO WAS TRYING TO CONCEAL THE PURCHASE?
3 A MY FATHER.
4 Q SO IT APPEARS TO YOU THAT YOUR FATHER LIED WHEN
5 HE SAID HE WAS AN UNMARRIED MAN?
6 A YES.
7 Q AND DOES IT APPEAR THAT ODESSA LIED WHEN SHE
8 SAID SHE WAS A SINGLE MAN?
9 A YOU KNOW, I NEVER -- SHE LOOKED LIKE A WOMAN TO
10 ME.
11 Q DOES IT APPEAR AS THOUGH THEY LIED, JUST AS YOU
12 SAY YOUR FATHER DID?
13 A WELL --
14 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE.
15 THE COURT: WE DON'T KNOW THAT SHE SAID ANYTHING. WE
16 JUST -- WE DON'T KNOW HOW THIS CAME ABOUT. THERE'S NO
17 FOUNDATION LAYED FOR THIS.
18 GO ON, COUNSEL, ASK A NEW QUESTION.
19 BY MR. LAK
20 Q IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT AFTER YOUR FATHER LEFT
21 THE RESIDENCE IN 1968 THAT HE PAID YOUR MOTHER CHILD SUPPORT
22 IN THE AMOUNT OF $80 A MONTH?
23 A YES.
24 Q IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY TODAY THAT THOSE PAYMENTS
25 STOPPED WHEN YOU TURNED 18?
26 A UH-HUH, YES.
27 Q ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY OTHER PAYMENTS YOUR FATHER
28 MADE TO YOUR MOTHER DURING THAT TIME?

70
1 A YEAH. HE STILL CAME BY AND HELPED OUT
2 OCCASIONALLY.
3 Q BUT AS FAR AS REGULAR PAYMENTS, IT WAS LIMITED
4 TO CHILD SUPPORT?
5 A REGULAR PAYMENTS WAS THE $80 I UNDERSTOOD WAS
6 FOR ME.
7 Q DID YOU VISIT YOUR FATHER AT HIS HOME IN 1969,
8 THE YEAR AFTER HE MOVED OUT?
9 A NO. WHEN I WOULD SEE MY DAD, HE WAS AT THE 1916
10 NORTH BELL HAVEN PROPERTY.
11 Q SO YOU NEVER WENT TO VISIT YOUR FATHER AT HIS
12 PLACE OF RESIDENCE?
13 A NO. BECAUSE NO ONE KNEW WHERE HE LIVED.
14 Q WHEN DID YOU FIRST DISCOVER WHERE HE LIVED?
15 A I DISCOVERED THAT WHEN MY SISTER SHIRLEY RITCHEY
16 AND MOM HAD DISCOVERED A BILL, BECAUSE THEY HAD CHARGE
17 ACCOUNTS TOGETHER, AND SHE DISCOVERED THE BILL AND SAW THE
18 INGLEWOOD ADDRESS ON THERE. AND THAT WAS SOMEWHERE IN THE
19 LATE 1970'S, MID OR LATE 1970'S.
20 Q SO APPROXIMATELY 10 TO 12 YEARS AFTER YOUR
21 FATHER MOVED OUT IS WHEN YOU ACCIDENTLY DISCOVERED HIS
22 RESIDENCE?
23 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, MISSTATES HIS TESTIMONY.
24 THE COURT: HE'S ASKING.
25 YOU CAN ANSWER.
26 THE WITNESS: WELL, IT CAN'T BE 10 OR 12 YEARS. MAYBE
27 IT WAS TEN YEARS. YOU KNOW, I USED TO THINK IT WAS TEN
28 YEARS, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER. IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME AGO. I

71
1 REMEMBER EVENTUALLY WE FOUND OUT WHERE HE WAS STAYING AND I
2 DIDN'T MEET ODESSA UNTIL THE RETIREMENT PARTY.
3 BY MR. LAK
4 Q SO APPROXIMATELY TEN YEARS AFTER YOUR FATHER,
5 YOU MOVED OUT AND YOU DISCOVERED HIS RESIDENCE?
6 A NO. I MOVED OUT IN 19 -- OH, I'M SORRY.
7 RESTATE THAT.
8 Q I'LL ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN.
9 APPROXIMATELY TEN YEARS AFTER YOUR FATHER MOVED
10 OUT IS WHEN YOU DISCOVERED HIS RESIDENCE?
11 A RIGHT, UH-HUH.
12 Q DID YOU EVER ASK HIM, WHERE DO YOU LIVE?
13 A NO.
14 Q WHY NOT?
15 A I FIGURED THAT HE WANTED THAT PRIVACY.
16 Q DID YOU HAVE A CAR DURING THE PERIOD OF 1969 TO
17 TEN YEARS THEREAFTER?
18 A NO. I DIDN'T GET A CAR UNTIL 1971, I THINK.
19 Q SO FROM --
20 A NO, WAIT A MINUTE. NO, I'M SORRY, THAT'S
21 INCORRECT. I DIDN'T GET A CAR FROM UNTIL 1974.
22 Q WHAT IS THE DISTANCE IN MILES ESTIMATION BETWEEN
23 BELHAVEN WHERE YOUR MOTHER LIVED AND 12TH STREET WHERE YOUR
24 FATHER LIVED?
25 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, RELEVANCE.
26 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
27 THE WITNESS: OKAY. LET'S SEE, IT WOULD PROBABLY TAKE
28 ME 20 MINUTES TO DRIVE OVER TO DAD'S HOUSE, 15 MINUTES, 20

72
1 MINUTES. I DON'T KNOW.
2 BY MR. LAK
3 Q SO IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY TODAY THAT YOUR FATHER
4 WAS 15 MINUTES AWAY BY CAR AND FOR A PERIOD OF TEN YEARS YOU
5 DIDN'T KNOW WHERE HE LIVED?
6 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE.
7 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
8 THE WITNESS: DAD WAS KEEPING HIS ADDRESS AND STUFF
9 PRIVATE AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS ALWAYS TAUGHT TO RESPECT OTHER
10 PEOPLE'S PRIVACY, AND I CERTAINLY DID THAT TO MY PARENTS.
11 BY MR. LAK
12 Q DURING THIS TIME, WHERE DID YOUR MOTHER LIVE?
13 A AT 1916 NORTH BELHAVEN.
14 Q IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT SOME TIME DURING 1968
15 YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER RECONCILED?
16 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.
17 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
18 THE WITNESS: OH, MAN. HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU GOING
19 TO ASK ME THE SAME QUESTION?
20 BY MR. LAK
21 Q WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF RECONCILED?
22 A WELL, WHEN PEOPLE ARE RECONCILED, THEY HAVE SEX
23 IF THEY ARE MARRIED.
24 Q DO THEY LIVE TOGETHER?
25 A THEY LIVE TOGETHER.
26 Q DID IT SEEM ODD TO YOU THAT IF YOUR PARENTS WERE
27 RECONCILED, THAT THEY LIVED IN SEPARATE HOMES?
28 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION AND

73
1 THERE'S NO TIMEFRAME SET FOR THIS.
2 THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
3 PERIOD OF TIME POST YOUR FATHER MOVING FROM THE HOUSE AND
4 AFTER THE RECONCILIATION.
5 THE WITNESS: DAD MOVED AWAY, BUT ACCORDING TO FAMILY
6 MEMBERS, ONE IN PARTICULAR, HE STILL CAME BACK HOME AND SO
7 IT WAS OFF AND ON. HE DIDN'T REALLY STAY AWAY UNTIL 1980
8 WHEN HE -- AFTER HE RETIRED, THEN HE STAYED AWAY. HE
9 STOPPED THE VISITS.
10 BY MR. LAK
11 Q MY QUESTION WAS: DID YOU THINK IT WAS ODD THAT
12 YOUR PARENTS, IF THEY HAD RECONCILED, WERE LIVING IN TWO
13 DIFFERENT HOMES?
14 A WELL SEE, I ONLY DISCOVERED THE RECONCILIATION
15 DOCUMENT JUST RECENTLY.
16 Q OKAY.
17 SO WHEN YOU TELL THIS COURT THAT THEY --
18 A SO --
19 Q I'LL FINISH ASKING MY QUESTION.
20 SO WHEN YOU TELL THIS COURT THAT THEY
21 RECONCILED, IT'S BASED ON THE DOCUMENT THAT YOU OBTAINED
22 RECENTLY?
23 A WELL, WHEN I TELL THE COURT THAT THEY
24 RECONCILED, YES. BECAUSE IF SHE FILED FOR DIVORCE AND THEN
25 DAD SAYS THAT HE RECONCILED, THEN THEY ARE RECONCILED.
26 Q AND SO THIS IS -- I'LL REFRESH YOUR MEMORY.
27 PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 13 IS WHAT YOU'RE BASING YOUR PARENTS
28 RECONCILIATION ON?

74
1 A NO, NOT JUST THAT, BUT THE FACT THAT HE
2 CONTINUED TO COME BY AND SEE HER THROUGHOUT THE '70'S. AND
3 THE FACT WHEN HE MOVED IN, THEIR CONDUCT TOWARDS ONE
4 ANOTHER, WHICH I WAS REALLY SURPRISED. BUT HE HAD BEEN
5 COMING OVER THERE FOR DINNER ANYWAY.
6 Q WHEN DID YOU FIRST START SEARCHING FOR YOUR
7 PARENTS MARRIAGE RECORDS?
8 A I STARTED SEARCHING FOR THE MARRIAGE RECORDS
9 WHEN WE GOT AHOLD OF THE TRUST. REMEMBER, YOU DENIED US
10 ACCESS TO THE TRUST FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND FINALLY THE
11 JUDGE TOLD YOUR SIDE TO HAND OVER THE TRUST. THEN WE SAW IN
12 THERE IN YOUR PARAGRAPHS AND THE FIRST PART OF THE FIRST
13 TRUST YOU SAID THAT DAD HAD DIVORCED IN 1968 WITH JUDGMENT
14 AND NO ONE IN THE FAMILY KNEW ABOUT A DIVORCE OR KNEW ABOUT
15 A DIVORCE DEGREE OF JUDGMENT.
16 SO I WENT DOWN TO THE COURT RECORDS TO FIND OUT
17 IF THIS WAS TRUE OR NOT BECAUSE I HADN'T HEARD ANYTHING
18 ABOUT THAT AND I COULDN'T -- I CONTACTED OTHER FAMILY
19 MEMBERS AND THEY SAID THEY HADN'T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THAT,
20 SO I WANTED TO FIND OUT.
21 SO I WENT DOWN TO THE COURT RECORDS IN THE
22 BASEMENT AND THEY GAVE ME A CERTIFIED COPY THAT, INDEED, MOM
23 HAD INDEED FILED FOR DIVORCE IN JANUARY OF 1968 AND -- BUT
24 NEVER -- THE DIVORCE DID NOT GO THROUGH. IT WAS NOT WITH A
25 JUDGMENT. AND FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, THE COUPLE WAS
26 STILL MARRIED. SO DAD WHEN HE PASSED AWAY HE WAS A MARRIED
27 MAN.
28 Q SO FROM THE PERIOD OF 1968 TO THE TIME THAT YOUR

75
1 FATHER PASSED AWAY IN 2008, HE WAS LIVING AT 12TH STREET?
2 A HE PASSED AWAY -- EXCUSE ME. HE PASSED AWAY IN
3 2009.
4 Q I'M SORRY. I'M GOING STRIKE THAT QUESTION.
5 A OKAY.
6 Q WHEN DID YOU OBTAIN THE COPY OF THE TRUST?
7 A DAD DIED IN AUGUST AND WE DIDN'T GET OUR COPY --
8 AND IT WASN'T -- IT WAS AN EMAIL I GOT IT. IT WAS --
9 SOMEONE SENT ME A COPY OF THE TRUST. IT WAS SOME TIME IN
10 FEBRUARY OR WAS IT -- MAYBE FEBRUARY. IT WAS A LONG TIME
11 AFTER HIS DEATH.
12 Q SO A LONG TIME AFTER YOUR FATHER'S DEATH WAS THE
13 FIRST TIME YOU BEGAN SEARCHING FOR WHETHER, IN FACT, YOUR
14 PARENTS WERE STILL MARRIED?
15 A NO. AFTER I SAW THE TRUST AND SAW THAT
16 INCORRECT INFORMATION IN THE TRUST, I QUESTIONED IT AND THEN
17 THAT'S WHAT CAUSED ME TO GO DOWN AND LOOK TO SEE WHETHER OR
18 NOT THEY WERE STILL MARRIED.
19 Q WHY DID YOU HAVE A DOUBT AS TO WHETHER THEY WERE
20 MARRIED OR NOT?
21 A WELL, I DIDN'T HAVE A DOUBT. BUT BECAUSE NO ONE
22 KNEW ABOUT IT, I WANTED TO GET SOME CERTIFICATION FROM THE
23 COURT THAT INDEED WOULD SHOW -- A LEGAL DOCUMENT FROM THE
24 COURT TO SHOW THAT THEY, INDEED, WERE STILL MARRIED. WE
25 WERE INVOLVED IN LITIGATION AT THE TIME AND THIS DOCUMENT
26 WOULD COME IN HANDY TO SHOW THAT THE TRUST WAS NOT CORRECT
27 IN ITS STATEMENT.
28 Q WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOUR FATHER WAS STRONG

76
1 WILLED?
2 A NO.
3 Q WOULD YOU SAY YOUR FATHER WAS STUBBORN?
4 A NO.
5 Q WOULD YOU SAY THAT HE WAS A PUSHOVER?
6 A SOMEWHAT.
7 Q WAS HE EASILY MANIPULATED?
8 A DEFINITELY.
9 Q OKAY.
10 WHEN DID YOU FIRST FILE A MOTION TO FREEZE YOUR
11 FATHER'S ACCOUNTS?
12 A THE RESTRAINING ORDER WAS FILED, I BELIEVE, IN
13 JUNE.
14 Q OF WHAT YEAR?
15 A 2008.
16 Q AND WHY DID YOU FILE A -- PETITION THE COURT FOR
17 THAT RESTRAINING ORDER?
18 A I'M SORRY, IT'S 2009. EXCUSE ME.
19 Q WHY DID YOU FILE A PETITION WITH THE COURT FOR A
20 RESTRAINING ORDER ON YOUR FATHER'S FINANCIAL ACCOUNTS?
21 A WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS STRESSING TO
22 SANDRA ANDERSON WAS THAT HAVING THE ESTATE VULNERABLE PUTS
23 BOTH PARENTS AT RISK OF LOSS AND I WANTED TO PROTECT DAD
24 FROM LOSING ALL OF HIS ESTATE AND I WANTED TO PROTECT MOM
25 FROM LOSING HER SHARE OF THE ESTATE. SO I WANTED THE COURT
26 TO PUT A FREEZE ON EVERYTHING UNTIL WE SETTLED WHAT BELONGS
27 TO WHOM.
28 Q WHEN YOU REFER TO SANDRA ANDERSON, FOR THE

77
1 COURT'S BENEFIT, WHO IS SANDRA ANDERSON?
2 A SANDRA ANDERSON WAS A CONSERVATORSHIP ATTORNEY.
3 Q YOUR PRIOR ATTORNEY?
4 A YES.
5 Q YOU WANTED TO PROTECT YOUR FATHER FROM WHO?
6 A THE PEOPLE THAT HAD POWER OF ATTORNEY, THAT'S
7 DORIS AND ROBERT.
8 Q YOU WANTED TO PROTECT YOUR FATHER FROM
9 DORIS FULLER AND ROBERT FULLER?
10 A ABSOLUTELY FROM THE FINANCIAL, BECAUSE IT WAS
11 TOO MUCH. EVERYTHING WAS -- IT WAS TOO MUCH AT RISK.
12 Q DID YOU TAKE ANY OTHER MEASURES TO PROTECT YOUR
13 FATHER FROM OR DORIS AND ROBERT?
14 A WELL, BEING THAT I HAD SPENT QUITE A LARGE SUM
15 ON ATTORNEY FEES, I WAS RUNNING OUT OF MONEY. AND CERTAIN
16 THINGS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE MONEY, YOU JUST
17 CAN'T DO.
18 Q DID YOU EVER CALL THE POLICE?
19 A I CALLED THE POLICE ONCE, YES.
20 Q DID YOU CALL THE LA COUNTY SHERIFF?
21 A YES.
22 Q WHEN WAS THAT?
23 A WELL, WE DID MORE THAN CALL, WE WENT DOWN THERE.
24 IT WAS THREE OF US, SANDRA AND I AND MY ELDEST SISTER. WE
25 DID THAT BECAUSE MY NIECE, WHO IS IN THE COURTROOM RIGHT
26 NOW, HAD PHONED ME AND TOLD ME THAT DAD WAS MISSING. AND WE
27 HAD A COURT PROCEEDING. AFTER WE LEFT COURT, WE WENT TO
28 COMPTON SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT AND WE ASKED THEM IF THEY WOULD

78
1 FIND OUT FROM DORIS WHERE WAS OUR FATHER.
2 AND SO THE SHERIFF WENT OVER TO DORIS' HOME AND
3 CONTACTED DORIS BY PHONE AND CAME BACK TO THE CAR AND SAID
4 THAT HE WOULD GO TO WHEREVER DAD WAS LOCATED AND THEN GIVE
5 US A CALL BACK AND LET US KNOW HOW DAD WAS DOING.
6 AND THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENED WAS --
7 Q I'M GOING TO ASK -- THANK YOU. DID THE SHERIFF
8 EVER CALL YOU BACK?
9 A NO, HE DID NOT. HIS NAME WAS SHERIFF JOHNSON.
10 Q WHEN YOU WENT TO THE LA -- THE COMPTON SHERIFF'S
11 DEPARTMENT WITH SANDRA ARNOLD AND ALSO SHIRLEY RITCHEY?
12 A YES.
13 Q DID YOU TELL THE SHERIFFS THAT YOU WERE WORRIED
14 ABOUT ROBERT AND DORIS TAKING YOUR FATHER'S MONEY?
15 A NO. WE WERE WORRIED ABOUT OUR FATHER. I DON'T
16 REMEMBER THAT COMING UP. I REMEMBER WE WANTED TO KNOW -- WE
17 WERE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT HIS WELL BEING AT THAT POINT. HE
18 DIDN'T LOOK GOOD THE LAST TIME I SAW HIM IN THE HOSPITAL.
19 IF HE WENT INTO THE HOSPITAL, DORIS AND ROBERT WOULDN'T
20 NOTIFY ANY OF THE FAMILY MEMBERS. MY SISTER CAROL OR SANDRA
21 CALLED AROUND UNTIL THEY LOCATED HIM AT A HOSPITAL AND THEN
22 THAT'S THE WAY I GOT THE CHANCE TO GO SEE MY FATHER.
23 Q WAS THERE ANY FOLLOW UP FROM THE COMPTON
24 SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT WITH RESPECT TO YOUR COMPLAINT?
25 A NO.
26 Q THERE WAS NO FURTHER INVESTIGATION?
27 A OH, YOU MEAN FURTHER INVESTIGATION? YES.
28 MICHAEL -- I HAVE A NEPHEW THAT LIVES ON THE EAST COAST.

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1 HIS NAME IS MICHAEL LONG. HE WAS EXTREMELY CLOSE TO MY
2 FATHER AND THEY WOULD SPEAK ALMOST EVERY DAY OR EVERY OTHER
3 DAY. AND HE WAS TOTALLY -- HE'S BEEN TOTALLY DISTRAUGHT
4 EVER SINCE DAD MOVED IN WITH DORIS AND NOT ABLE TO CONTACT
5 HIS GRANDDAD.
6 SO WHEN HE PASSED AWAY -- WELL, BEFORE HE PASSED
7 AWAY, MICHAEL SENT THE SHERIFFS OVER TO DORIS' HOME
8 UNBEKNOWNST TO ME, BY THE WAY. I GET A PHONE CALL FROM THE
9 SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT TELLING ME THAT THEY ARE IN FRONT OF MY
10 SISTER'S HOUSE BECAUSE DAD, YOU KNOW, WAS MISSING, AND THAT
11 THEY WERE ABOUT TO REMOVE HER BARS.
12 SO I TOLD THEM THAT, PLEASE, DO NOT REMOVE MY
13 SISTER'S BARS FROM HER HOME BECAUSE DAD IS MORE THAN LIKELY
14 NOT IN THERE. SO MICHAEL --
15 Q THANK YOU.
16 SO THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT WERE CALLED OR
17 NOTIFIED ON TWO SEPARATE OCCASIONS ONCE BY YOU, SANDRA AND
18 SHIRLEY?
19 A RIGHT.
20 Q AND THE SECOND TIME BY YOUR NEPHEW, MICHAEL
21 LONG?
22 A WELL, BEFORE -- NO. THE FIRST TIME WAS BY
23 MICHAEL AND THAT INCIDENT WITH THE BARS. THE NEXT TIME WAS
24 US GOING DOWN THERE TRYING TO FIND WHERE DAD WAS. I THINK
25 IT WAS EMOTIONALLY DRAINING AND CRUEL NOT TO KNOW WHERE YOUR
26 92-YEAR OLD DYING FATHER IS.
27 AND I THINK -- AND MR. LAK, I HAVE TO SAY THIS,
28 I THINK THAT YOU WERE PARTIALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR SOME OF THIS

80
1 AND THAT'S JUST WHAT I BELIEVE. WE CAN GO ON NOW.
2 THE COURT: NEXT QUESTION, PLEASE.
3 BY MR. LAK
4 Q DO YOU KNOW THE BASIS OF MICHAEL LONG'S CONCERN
5 THAT CAUSED HIM TO CALL THE POLICE?
6 A HE COULD NEVER REACH MY FATHER BY PHONE. I
7 COULDN'T TELL HIM ANYTHING ABOUT DAD'S CONDITION. HE SENT
8 CERTIFIED LETTERS TO DORIS AND ROBERT ASKING IF HE COULD
9 JUST SPEAK TO HIS GRANDDAD AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT HE EVER
10 GOT A MOMENT DO THAT.
11 Q DO YOU KNOW IF THERE WERE ANY FOLLOW-UP
12 INVESTIGATIONS WITH EITHER MICHAEL LONG'S NOTIFICATION OF
13 THE AUTHORITIES OR YOUR NOTIFICATION? WERE THERE ANY
14 FURTHER INVESTIGATION BY THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT?
15 A WELL, THERE WAS ONE OTHER. MICHAEL HAD SENT
16 SEVERAL DOCUMENTS AND EMAILS AND --
17 Q TO WHOM?
18 A HE GOT LEE BACA INVOLVED IN IT TO SEE IF --
19 Q I'M SORRY?
20 A LEE BACA, HE'S THE HEAD OF THE SHERIFF'S
21 DEPARTMENT. HE GOT LEE BACA INVOLVED AND HE TOLD --
22 LEE BACA CONTACTED THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT IN COMPTON.
23 BEING THAT I'M HERE, THEN THEY CONTACTED ME AND ASKED ME FOR
24 CERTAIN PAPERWORK. AND HE WANTED TO GET AN INVESTIGATION
25 STARTED FOR ELDER ABUSE AFTER GETTING THE MEDICAL REPORTS
26 THAT SHOW THE DAMAGE THAT WAS DONE TO DAD WITH HIS ULCERS
27 AND NOT BEING MOVED. WHEN YOU TAKE CARE OF AN ELDERLY
28 PERSON, YOU HAVE TO KNOW THAT THEY CANNOT LAY IN THE BED ALL

81
1 DAY IN ONE SPOT. THEY HAVE TO BE MOVED AROUND.
2 Q SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR
3 TESTIMONY. MICHAEL LONG CONTACTED LEE BACA, WHO THEN IN
4 TURN CONTACTED THE SHERIFF, WHO BEGAN AN INVESTIGATION FOR
5 ELDER ABUSE?
6 A WELL, I THINK THAT'S THE WAY IT WENT, I'M NOT
7 SURE. BECAUSE I'M NOT MICHAEL, I CAN'T SPEAK ON HIS BEHALF.
8 Q WHAT DOCUMENTS DID THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
9 REQUEST FROM YOU? YOU SAID THAT THEY REQUESTED DOCUMENTS
10 FROM YOU.
11 A WELL, THEY WANTED A COPY OF THE RESTRAINING
12 ORDER THAT ROBERT AND DORIS PUT ON ME SO I COULDN'T FIND
13 DAD. THEY WANTED COPIES OF THE TRUST, THE PART THAT WAS
14 INCORRECT. THEY WANTED THE AMENDMENT TO THE TRUST. IT WAS
15 A LIST OF DOCUMENTS THAT THEY HAD REQUESTED.
16 Q DID YOU SUPPLY THOSE DOCUMENTS?
17 A I SUPPLIED SOME OF THEM, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM.
18 LIKE I SAID, I'M VERY, VERY BUSY. I JUST DON'T HAVE TIME
19 FOR ALL OF THIS STUFF.
20 Q WHICH DOCUMENTS DID YOU SUPPLY?
21 A THEY GOT A -- THEY RECEIVED A COPY OF THE TRUST
22 AND, LET'S SEE, WHAT ELSE? MICHAEL SENT THEM A WHOLE THING
23 OF DOCUMENTS, BUT I'M NOT QUITE SURE --
24 Q WHAT DOCUMENTS DID YOU SUPPLY?
25 A OH, THE TRUST, THE COPY OF THE CHECKS THAT DORIS
26 REMOVING -- DORIS AND ROBERT REMOVING THE MONEY.
27 Q THANK YOU.
28 ARE THERE ANY OTHER DOCUMENTS YOU SUPPLIED TO

82
1 THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT?
2 A I CAN'T REMEMBER ALL THE ONES THAT THEY
3 RECEIVED.
4 Q AND SO, AFTER YOU SUPPLIED THE DOCUMENTS TO THE
5 SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, DID YOU RECEIVE ANY FURTHER
6 COMMUNICATION FROM THEM?
7 A WELL, NO I DIDN'T BECAUSE I DIDN'T SUPPLY THEM
8 WITH THE REST OF THE DOCUMENTS. AND, YOU KNOW, ELDER ABUSE
9 IS A VERY TERRIBLE THING THAT GOES ON IN THE UNITED STATES,
10 AND WHAT I HAVE COME TO FIND OUT IS THAT WHEN PEOPLE DO
11 THESE SORTS OF THINGS, IT'S PRETTY EASY FOR THEM TO GET OFF.
12 THE COURT: WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE, A
13 POST-DEATH INVESTIGATION BY THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT?
14 MR. LAK: NO, YOUR HONOR, PRE-DEATH.
15 THE COURT: IS THIS PRE-DEATH OR POST-DEATH?
16 THE WITNESS: WELL, PART OF IT WAS PRE-DEATH IN THE
17 FACT THAT WE COULDN'T LOCATE HIM, THEY WOULDN'T TELL US
18 WHERE HE WAS AT.
19 THE COURT: WHEN WAS THE --
20 THE WITNESS: THEN AFTER DEATH.
21 MR. LAK: THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.
22 BY MR. LAK
23 Q WHEN DID THIS -- OVER WHAT PERIOD OF TIME DID
24 THIS TRANSPIRE?
25 THE COURT: I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS IS RELEVANT. THE
26 FACT THAT HE MAY HAVE CONTACTED THE SHERIFF MAY HAVE SOME
27 RELEVANCE, BUT WHAT THE SHERIFF DID, FOR THE LIFE OF THE
28 INVESTIGATION, MEANING WHAT THEY DID OVER THE INVESTIGATION,

83
1 I DON'T SEE HOW THAT'S RELEVANT. NEXT QUESTION IS GOING TO
2 BE, WHAT'S THE OUTCOME OF THE SHERIFF'S INVESTIGATION? AND
3 I DON'T SEE HOW THAT HAS ANY RELEVANCE.
4 MR. LAK: WELL, IF YOU WOULD PERMIT ME, YOUR HONOR.
5 THERE ARE, AS YOU KNOW, TWO PETITIONS BEFORE THE COURT.
6 THEY PURPORT TO MAKE CLAIMS THAT ROBERT FULLER AND
7 DORIS FULLER VIA UNDUE INFLUENCE HAVE OBTAINED FUNDS
8 WRONGFULLY FROM THELSEY FULLER. AND THE WITNESS' TESTIMONY
9 IS THAT HE WAS WORRIED AND WANTED TO PROTECT HIS DAD FROM
10 THOSE TWO.
11 AND SO NOW THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, FROM
12 ANOTHER FAMILY MEMBER WHO IS ALSO CONCERNED, IS LAUNCHING A
13 FULL-SCALE INVESTIGATION AND YET HE DOESN'T HAVE TIME TO
14 GIVE THEM ALL THE INFORMATION. I THINK IT'S HIGHLY RELEVANT
15 BECAUSE IT SPEAKS TO THE SEVERITY OF THE ALLEGED ABUSE,
16 NEGLECT, UNDUE INFLUENCE, WHAT HAVE YOU. SO I'LL WRAP THIS
17 UP VERY QUICKLY.
18 THE COURT: GO AHEAD.
19 MR. LAK: BUT --
20 THE COURT: GO AHEAD.
21 MR. LAK: -- AS SOMEONE ONCE WISE ASKED THE QUESTION,
22 WHAT WAS THE RESULT? WAS THERE --
23 THE COURT: THAT'S NOT RELEVANT. THAT'S WHY I RAISED
24 THE POINT.
25 MR. LAK: OKAY.
26 THE COURT: I DON'T CARE, FROM A LEGAL POINT OF VIEW,
27 WHAT THE SHERIFF CONCLUDED.
28 MR. LAK: OKAY.

84
1 BY MR. LAK
2 Q AND SO LAST QUESTION ALONG THIS LINE, WHY DID
3 YOU NOT SUPPLY THE SHERIFF WITH ALL THE DOCUMENTS THEY
4 REQUESTED?
5 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, THAT'S BEEN ASKED AND
6 ANSWERED.
7 THE COURT: WHAT PERIOD OF TIME DID YOU NOT SUPPLY THE
8 SHERIFF WITH THE DOCUMENTS BECAUSE YOU WERE TOO BUSY?
9 THE WITNESS: WELL, WHAT HAPPENED WAS JUST THESE PAST
10 FEW MONTHS, WE HAD A VIRUS ATTACK ON THE JOB, AND I'M IN THE
11 IT DEPARTMENT. AND IT WAS BRINGING -- IT'S A MAJOR LAW
12 FIRM, AND IT WAS BRINGING DOWN THEIR COMPUTERS ALL OVER THE
13 PLACE. SO I HAD MY NEPHEW HERE TAKE CARE OF MOM SO I COULD
14 STAY AND WORK UNTIL 10:00, 11:00 AT NIGHT.
15 NOW, I OFFERED TO SEND THEM THROUGH AN EMAIL,
16 BUT THEY WANTED ME TO DRIVE WAY OUT TO COMPTON AND GIVE THEM
17 THIS INFORMATION. BUT, YOU KNOW, MY HANDS WERE JUST FULL.
18 THE COURT: WHEN WAS THIS LAST FEW MONTHS?
19 THE WITNESS: OH, MARCH. WAS IT MARCH OR --
20 THE COURT: 2011?
21 THE WITNESS: YES.
22 THE COURT: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
23 NEXT QUESTION, IF THERE IS A NEXT QUESTION.
24 BY MR. LAK
25 Q WERE YOU AWARE THAT ROBERT FULLER AND
26 DORIS FULLER OBTAINED A RESTRAINING ORDER AGAINST YOUR
27 NEPHEW MICHAEL LONG?
28 A NO.

85
1 Q YOU SAID YOU WANTED TO PROTECT YOUR FATHER FROM
2 DORIS AND ROBERT FINANCIALLY. DID YOU ALSO WANT TO PROTECT
3 THEM PHYSICALLY?
4 A I WANTED TO PROTECT MY PARENTS, BOTH OF THEM,
5 FROM FINANCIAL ABUSE. I WAS NOT AWARE -- AT THE TIME WHEN
6 ALL THAT WENT ON, I WAS NOT AWARE OF THE PHYSICAL PROBLEM.
7 Q DID YOU EVER ASK YOUR FATHER WHILE HE WAS ALIVE
8 TO HELP WITH YOUR MOTHER'S EXPENSES?
9 A I ASKED MY DAD WHEN HE WAS STAYING WITH ME WOULD
10 HE AT LEAST LEAVE ENOUGH FOR ME TO TAKE CARE OF MOM UNTIL
11 SHE PASSES.
12 Q DID YOU ASK YOUR FATHER FOR A SPECIFIC AMOUNT?
13 A I ASKED -- WELL, THE WAY THAT I PUT IT, IT WAS
14 NOT $8,000 AS HE PUT IT. I SAID, IF HE WOULD, GIVE ME
15 70,000, THAT WOULD BE MY INHERITANCE AND I WOULD TAKE THAT
16 AND TAKE CARE OF BOTH OF THEM UNTIL THEY PASS AWAY; THAT'S
17 WHAT I TOLD MY FATHER. AND I SAID, THE HOME AND EVERYTHING
18 ELSE CAN BE DIVIDED UP BETWEEN THE REST OF THEM.
19 Q SO YOU ASKED YOUR FATHER FOR $70,000 IN EXCHANGE
20 FOR TAKING CARE OF BOTH EDWINA AND THELSEY?
21 A OH, EDWINA AND THELSEY AND THAT WAS IT.
22 Q AND WHICH HOME WOULD BE DIVIDED AMONGST WHO?
23 A NO. THE REAL ESTATE PROPERTY AND THE REST OF
24 THE FUNDS TO MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS.
25 Q WHY WOULD YOU BE INSTRUCTING YOUR FATHER ON HOW
26 HIS ESTATE SHOULD BE DISTRIBUTED?
27 A NO.
28 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION.

86
1 THE WITNESS: I'M NOT INSTRUCTING MY FATHER. THIS WAS
2 JUST AN ASK. HE HAD OFFERED $100,000.
3 BY MR. LAK
4 Q DID HE GIVE YOU THAT $70,000?
5 A OH, NO, NO. HE DIDN'T -- I MEAN, THE DAY HE
6 OFFERED ME 100, I WOULDN'T GO TO THE BANK WITH HIM BECAUSE I
7 FELT THAT IT WAS UNETHICAL.
8 Q SO WHEN DID YOUR FATHER OFFER YOU $100,000?
9 A HE OFFERED ME $100,000. WE WERE OVER AT TOMMY'S
10 HOUSE. TOMMY WAS SITTING THERE, THAT'S HIS COUSIN THROUGH
11 MARRIAGE. SHE WAS MARRIED -- NOT COUSIN, NIECE. SHE WAS
12 MARRIED TO SONNY, SONNY WAS DAD'S NEPHEW. AND I WAS TAKING
13 DAD AROUND. WE HAD WENT OUT TO DINNER. WE STOPPED -- HE
14 WANTED TO GO OVER TO SEE TOMMY, SO WE WENT OVER TO TOMMY'S
15 HOME. AND TOMMY WAS SELLING HER HOME AT THE TIME AND DAD
16 TOLD ME THAT HE WOULD GIVE ME 100,000 TO BUY TOMMY'S HOME.
17 Q AND WHEN WAS THAT?
18 A I TOLD HIM NO.
19 Q WHEN WAS THIS, WHAT DATE; DO YOU REMEMBER?
20 A WHAT DATE? THIS WAS, THIS WAS -- I CAN GET THE
21 EXACT DATE FROM TOMMY BECAUSE TOMMY WAS MOVING AT THE TIME.
22 Q DO YOU KNOW -- I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT. BUT DO
23 YOU KNOW THE EXACT OR APPROXIMATE YEAR?
24 A THAT WAS 2000 -- EARLY PART OF 2009.
25 Q EARLY PART MEANING JANUARY?
26 A NOT 2009, EXCUSE ME. 2008.
27 Q EARLY PART OF 2008 YOUR FATHER OFFERED YOU
28 $100,000 AND YOU DECLINED IT; IS THAT CORRECT?

87
1 A THAT'S CORRECT.
2 Q WHEN DID YOU --
3 A I MEAN, I COULD HAVE TAKEN HIM TO THE BANK AND
4 DID LIKE DORIS AND ROBERT DID, I JUST DIDN'T DO IT. CERTAIN
5 THINGS ARE NOT ETHICAL AND THAT WOULD NOT BE -- IT'S TAKING
6 ADVANTAGE OF AN ELDERLY PERSON.
7 Q WHEN DID YOUR -- WHEN DID YOU ASK YOUR FATHER
8 FOR $70,000?
9 A WHEN HE MOVED IN, HE WANTED TO DO -- HE WANTED
10 TO BE FAIR WITH THE FAMILY.
11 Q WHAT IS THE DATE?
12 A THE EXACT DATE? IT WAS SOMEWHERE IN JULY OF
13 2008.
14 Q I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR
15 TESTIMONY. EARLY 2008, THELSEY FULLER OFFERS YOU 100,000,
16 YOU SAY NO. JULY 2008, YOU ASK FOR 70,000 AND HE SAYS NO.
17 IS THAT YOUR TESTIMONY?
18 A WELL, NO. HE DIDN'T SAY NO.
19 Q DID HE GIVE YOU THE MONEY?
20 A HE DIDN'T -- WELL, HE COULDN'T ANYWAY BECAUSE
21 DORIS HAD TAKEN HIS IDENTIFICATION, HIS CHECKS AND
22 EVERYTHING ELSE. SO NO HE CAN'T GIVE NO MONEY AWAY.
23 Q DID HE GIVE YOU THE MONEY?
24 A NO.
25 Q DID HE SAY HE WANTED TO GIVE YOU THE MONEY?
26 A HE WANTED TO BE FAIR AND HE WANTED US TO COME
27 TOGETHER AS A FAMILY AND MEET.
28 AND THE MONEY THAT -- THE MONDAY THAT THEY CAME

88
1 AND REMOVED HIM OUT OF MY HOME WAS THE DAY THAT I WAS TO
2 CALL THEM ALL UP AND TELL THEM TO COME OVER AND WE WERE
3 GOING TO HAVE A MEETING, AND THAT'S ALL FIVE CHILDREN. AND
4 WE WERE GOING TO SIT DOWN AND DECIDE IN THE RIGHT WAY ON HOW
5 TO DO THIS, AND THAT WAS THE PROPER WAY.
6 SO WHEN WE HAD THE MEDIATION, I BROUGHT THAT UP.
7 AND EVERYONE SAT THERE, AND YOU WERE THERE AT THE MEDIATION,
8 AND SAID NOTHING.
9 MR. LAK: YOUR HONOR, STRIKE THAT COMMENT AS MEDIATION
10 CONVERSATION ARE NOT ADMISSIBLE.
11 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
12 WHATEVER WAS SAID AT THE MEDIATION IS
13 CONFIDENTIAL.
14 THE WITNESS: OH, I'M SORRY.
15 THE COURT: SO YOU CAN'T TESTIFY ABOUT IT --
16 THE WITNESS: OKAY.
17 THE COURT: -- OR HEAR ABOUT IT IN COURT. THE
18 TESTIMONY IS STRICKEN.
19 THE WITNESS: OKAY, THANK YOU.
20 BY MR. LAK
21 Q SO YOUR FATHER NEVER SAID HE AGREED THAT THE
22 70,000 WAS A FAIR AMOUNT?
23 A HE SAID HE WANTED US ALL TO MEET AND WORK IT
24 OUT.
25 Q DID HE SAY THE $70,000 WAS FAIR?
26 A NO.
27 Q BUT HE WANTED YOU TO MEET AS A FAMILY TO WORK IT
28 OUT?

89
1 A RIGHT.
2 Q OKAY.
3 DID YOU MEET AS A FAMILY?
4 A WELL, I WAS GOING TO CALL EVERYONE. THAT WAS --
5 I WAS GOING TO CALL EVERYONE THAT MONDAY AND THAT'S WHEN
6 DORIS AND ROBERT REMOVED HIM OUT AND HE STARTED HIS PERIOD
7 OF ISOLATION.
8 Q DID YOU MEET AS A FAMILY?
9 A NO.
10 MR. LAK: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.
11 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
12 REDIRECT.
13 THE WITNESS: THAT'S IT?
14 THE COURT: NO, SORRY.
15 GO AHEAD.
16 MS. BURRELL: JUST A FEW QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.
17
18 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
19 BY MS. BURRELL
20 Q MR. FULLER, IN YOUR TESTIMONY YOU MENTIONED A
21 RESTRAINING ORDER THAT WAS ISSUED AGAINST YOU.
22 A YES.
23 Q WHO ISSUED A RESTRAINING ORDER AGAINST YOU?
24 A ROBERT FULLER AND DORIS FULLER. IT WAS HER
25 WRITING ON IT, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING HER NAME.
26 Q AND WHEN DID YOU -- WHEN WAS THIS RESTRAINING
27 ORDER ISSUED AGAINST YOU?
28 A IT WAS ISSUED IN 2009. IN JULY, I BELIEVE.

90
1 Q WAS IT SERVED UPON YOU?
2 A YES.
3 Q WHERE WERE YOU WHEN IT WAS SERVED?
4 A AT HOME.
5 Q AND WHAT DID THE DOCUMENT RESTRAIN YOU FROM, IF
6 YOU CAN REMEMBER?
7 A ALL RIGHT. THE DOCUMENT SAID THAT I HAD BEEN
8 MAKING THREATS TO ROBERT AND DORIS AND DAD, AND THAT I WAS
9 GOING TO GO TO THE PAWN SHOP AND GET A GUN AND GO SHOOT
10 FAMILY MEMBERS IF I DID NOT GET BOTH HOUSES AND ALL THE
11 MONEY.
12 AND WHAT I FOUND INTERESTING WAS THE FACT THAT I
13 HADN'T SPOKEN TO DORIS AND ROBERT IN ABOUT A YEAR.
14 Q WHAT DID THE DOCUMENT RESTRAIN YOU FROM DOING?
15 A OH, FROM GOING OVER TO DORIS' HOME AND ALSO FROM
16 CALLING THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT ON HER.
17 Q AT THE TIME YOU WERE SERVED WITH THIS
18 RESTRAINING ORDER, WHERE WAS YOUR FATHER LIVING?
19 A HE WAS -- THEY HAD ALREADY REMOVED HIM TO AN
20 ISOLATED AREA. WELL, I UNDERSTAND NOW HE WAS IN LONG BEACH
21 AT PACIFIC PALMS.
22 Q AND SO THIS RESTRAINING ORDER OCCURRED AFTER THE
23 TIME THAT DORIS AND ROBERT HAD VISITED CITIBANK?
24 A YES.
25 Q AND REMOVED MONEY?
26 A YES.
27 Q YOU TESTIFIED THAT YOUR MOTHER HAS INCOME FROM
28 THREE SOURCES; IS THAT CORRECT?

91
1 A YES.
2 Q THE FIRST ONE BEING $384 FROM --
3 A DAD'S SOCIAL SECURITY.
4 Q -- YOUR FATHER'S SOCIAL SECURITY?
5 A UH-HUH.
6 Q BETWEEN $640 AND 700 IN SUPPLEMENTAL INCOME?
7 A YES, IT'S A LITTLE LESS NOW. IT'S BEEN GOING
8 DOWN INSTEAD OF UP.
9 Q AND $300, DID YOU TESTIFY $300 RENT A MONTH
10 RENT --
11 A YES.
12 Q -- FROM YOUR SISTER?
13 A YES.
14 Q IS THERE ANY OTHER MONEY THAT YOUR MOTHER
15 RECEIVES?
16 A NO.
17 Q DOES THIS MONEY MEET HER --
18 A NO.
19 Q -- BILLS?
20 A NO.
21 Q AND DO YOU SUPPLEMENT THE DIFFERENCE?
22 A I ALWAYS HAVE.
23 Q OKAY.
24 MS. BURRELL: NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.
25 MR. RANDALL:: NO QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.
26 MR. LAK: VERY QUICKLY, YOUR HONOR.
27 THE COURT: YES.
28

92
1 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. LAK
3 Q MR. FULLER, WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING?
4 A PRESENTLY I'M A SOFTWARE SUPERVISOR/TRAINER.
5 Q FOR WHAT COMPANY?
6 A LEWIS, BRISBOIS, BISGAARD & SMITH.
7 Q IS THAT A LAW FIRM?
8 A YES.
9 Q SO YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH LEGAL TERMINOLOGY?
10 A SOMEWHAT.
11 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, RELEVANCE.
12 MR. LAK: I'LL --
13 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT, OVERRULED.
14 BY MR. LAK
15 Q ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM EX PARTE?
16 A YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. I
17 HAVE ASKED MY ATTORNEY ABOUT EX PARTE. SHE KIND OF
18 EXPLAINED IT, BUT I'M NOT CLEAR ON IT.
19 Q WHEN YOU FIRST FILED A MOTION WITH THE COURT TO
20 FREEZE YOUR FATHER'S FUNDS, DO YOU KNOW IF IT WAS DONE ON AN
21 EX PARTE BASIS? IN OTHER WORDS, AN EMERGENCY BASIS.
22 A DON'T KNOW.
23 Q OKAY.
24 AND DID THE COURT EVER RULE ON YOUR PETITION TO
25 FREEZE YOUR FATHER'S FUNDS?
26 A NO.
27 Q OKAY.
28 WHEN DID YOU FILE THAT PETITION ORIGINALLY?

93
1 A I BELIEVE THAT THAT WAS IN 2009 AND IN JUNE.
2 Q AND THE COURT NEVER SET A HEARING FOR THAT?
3 A THEY SET HEARINGS. AND THEN, IF YOU REMEMBER,
4 YOU ASKED FOR CONTINUANCE AFTER CONTINUANCE AND EVENTUALLY
5 IT WAS JUST REMOVED OFF CALENDAR.
6 Q DID YOU REMOVE IT OFF CALENDAR OR DID YOUR
7 COUNSEL REMOVE IT?
8 A I JUST FOUND OUT MY COUNSEL REMOVED IT OFF
9 CALENDAR.
10 Q JUST FOUND OUT WHEN?
11 A THAT WAS JUST IN GOING THROUGH THE TRANSCRIPTS
12 FROM THE COURT PROCEEDINGS, THAT WAS A FEW MONTHS AGO.
13 Q AND WHEN DID YOUR COUNSEL REMOVE OF IT OFF
14 CALENDAR?
15 A CAN'T REMEMBER.
16 MR. LAK: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.
17 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
18 ANYTHING ELSE?
19 MR. RANDALL:: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
20 MS. BURRELL: NO.
21 THE COURT: OKAY.
22 MAY THE WITNESS BEING EXCUSED?
23 MS. BURRELL: YES.
24 THE WITNESS: OH, THANK YOU.
25 THE COURT: THANK YOU. YOU'RE EXCUSED.
26
27
28

94
1 (THIS ENDS THE REQUESTED TRANSCRIBED
2 PORTION OF THE PROCEEDINGS FOR THE
3 DAY.)
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95
1 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; WEDNESDAY, MAY 25, 2011
2 MORNING SESSION
3 DEPARTMENT CE-99 HON. MARVIN M. LAGER, JUDGE
4 -O0O-
5 (STEPHANIE BAKER, OFFICIAL REPORTER)
6
7 (THIS BEGINS THE REQUESTED TRANSCRIBED
8 PORTION OF THE PROCEEDINGS.)
9
10 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
11 ARE WE READY FOR MR. FULLER?
12 MS. BURRELL: YES.
13 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
14 MR. FULLER, PLEASE RESUME THE STAND. YOU'RE
15 REMINDED THAT YOU'RE STILL UNDER OATH. I AM ALLOWING YOU TO
16 BE RECALLED AT THIS TIME. PLEASE HAVE A SEAT.
17 THIS IS STEVEN FULLER; CORRECT?
18 THE WITNESS: YES. YES, YOUR HONOR.
19 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
20 MS. BURRELL, YOU MAY PROCEED.
21 MS. BURRELL: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
22
23 STEVEN FULLER,
24 PETITIONER HEREIN, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY SWORN, FURTHER
25 TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
26
27
28

96
1 FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MS. BURRELL
3 Q MR. FULLER, IN YOUR EARLIER TESTIMONY YOU
4 TESTIFIED THAT YOU HAD HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO INVESTIGATE THE
5 OWNERSHIP OF THE 12TH AVENUE PROPERTY; IS THAT RIGHT?
6 A YES.
7 Q AND DID YOU ALSO -- AND IN YOUR INVESTIGATION
8 DID YOU OBTAIN SOME DOCUMENTS CONCERNING THE 12TH AVENUE
9 PROPERTY?
10 A YES, I DID.
11 Q SOME RECORDED DOCUMENTS?
12 A YES.
13 MS. BURRELL: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
14 THE COURT: YES.
15 MS. BURRELL: LET ME SHOW YOU A DOCUMENT ENTITLED
16 (READING:) LONG FORM DEED OF TRUST AND ASSIGNMENT OF RENTS.
17 IT'S BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS EXHIBIT NUMBER FOUR. IT'S A
18 TWO-PAGE DOCUMENT.
19
20 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
21
22 BY MS. BURRELL
23 Q LET ME SHOW YOU THIS AND ASK YOU IF YOU
24 RECOGNIZE THAT.
25 A YES.
26 Q DOES IT APPEAR TO BE A TRUE AND ACCURATE COPY OF
27 THE DOCUMENT YOU RECEIVED WHEN YOU PERFORMED A SEARCH OF THE
28 PUBLIC RECORDS CONCERNING THE 12TH AVENUE PROPERTY?

97
1 A YES.
2 Q OKAY.
3 NOW, ON THIS DOCUMENT IT READS IN THE TOP THAT
4 THIS DEED OF TRUST WAS MADE ON THE 30TH DAY OF AUGUST OF
5 1968. DO YOU SEE THAT?
6 A YES, I DO.
7 Q AND IT'S BETWEEN THELSEY FULLER, AN UNMARRIED
8 MAN, AND ODESSA GAINS, A SINGLE WOMAN.
9 DO YOU SEE THAT?
10 A YES.
11 Q AND THIS DOCUMENT PURPORTS TO CONCERN THE
12 PROPERTY AT 8625 12TH AVENUE INGLEWOOD; IS THAT RIGHT?
13 A YES.
14 Q OKAY.
15 CAN YOU TAKE A LOOK AND READ US THE THIRD
16 PARAGRAPH IN THE MIDDLE. IT IS THE PARAGRAPH THAT BEGINS
17 WITH "THIS DEED."
18 A (READING:) THIS DEED OF TRUST IS SECOND AND
19 SUBJECT TO A FIRST TRUST DEED IN FAVOR OF CALIFORNIA FEDERAL
20 SAVINGS AND LOAN ASSOCIATION IN THE AMOUNT OF $16,000.
21 RECORDING CONCURRENTLY HEREWITH AND IS GIVEN AS A PORTION OF
22 THE PURCHASE PRICE.
23 Q OKAY.
24 AND IS THERE A DATE ON THIS DOCUMENT ON EITHER
25 PAGE ONE OR TWO -- OR, I'M SORRY. A DATE OF SIGNATURE OF
26 THIS DOCUMENT.
27 A YES.
28 Q AND WHAT IS THAT DATE?

98
1 A SEPTEMBER 3RD, 1968.
2 Q AND IS THAT YOUR FATHER'S SIGNATURE THERE?
3 A YES.
4 Q WOULD YOU RECOGNIZE YOUR FATHER'S SIGNATURE IF
5 YOU SAW IT?
6 A YES.
7 Q DO YOU HAVE ANY REASON TO THINK THAT'S NOT YOUR
8 FATHER'S SIGNATURE?
9 A NO.
10 Q OKAY.
11 AND IS THERE A RECORDING DATE ON THIS DOCUMENT
12 AS WELL OR IS THERE A -- DO YOU SEE THE STAMP HERE
13 (INDICATING). CAN YOU READ TO US WHAT'S IN THAT STAMP, THAT
14 BOX.
15 A (READING:) RECORDED IN OFFICIAL RECORDS OF
16 LOS ANGELES COUNTY CALIFORNIA FOR TITLE INSURANCE AND TRUST
17 COMPANY SEPTEMBER 20TH, 1968 AT 8:00 A.M.
18 Q OKAY, THANK YOU.
19 THE NEXT DOCUMENT I'LL SHOW YOU WHICH HAS BEEN
20 MARKED AS EXHIBIT -- PRE-MARKED AS EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE IS A
21 ONE-PAGE DOCUMENT. IT'S ENTITLED (READING:) SHORT FORM DEED
22 OF TRUST AND ASSIGNMENT OF RENTS. AND LET ME ASK YOU IF YOU
23 RECOGNIZE THAT DOCUMENT.
24 MR. LAK: WHAT EXHIBIT IS THIS, MS. BURRELL?
25 MS. BURRELL: NUMBER FIVE.
26
27
28

99
1 (MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
2 PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 5, ONE-PAGE
3 DOCUMENT.)
4
5 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
6
7 BY MS. BURRELL
8 Q AND DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS DOCUMENT?
9 A YES, IT IS A SHORT FORM.
10 Q DOES IT APPEAR TO BE A TRUE AND ACCURATE COPY OF
11 THE DOCUMENT YOU RECEIVED WHEN YOU INVESTIGATED THE
12 DOCUMENTS OF RECORD ON THE 12TH AVENUE PROPERTY?
13 A YES.
14 Q AND IT SAYS (READING:) THIS DEED OF TRUST IS
15 EXECUTED SEPTEMBER 20TH, 1968 BETWEEN THELSEY FULLER, AN
16 UNMARRIED MAN --
17 THE COURT: SEPTEMBER 10, I BELIEVE.
18 MS. BURRELL: I'M SORRY, EXCUSE ME. (READING:)
19 SEPTEMBER 10, 1968 BETWEEN THELSEY FULLER, AN UNMARRIED MAN,
20 AND ODESSA GAINS, A SINGLE WOMAN.
21 BY MS. BURRELL
22 Q DO YOU SEE THAT?
23 A YES.
24 Q AND IT ALSO SEEMS TO PERTAIN TO 8625 12TH AVENUE
25 IN INGLEWOOD; IS THAT RIGHT?
26 A YES.
27 Q NOW LOOKING DOWN, I REALIZE THE PRINT IS SMALL,
28 BUT LOOKING AT THE SUB PARAGRAPH ONE, CAN YOU READ US THAT

100
1 FIRST PARAGRAPH. CAN YOU READ THAT?
2 A (READING:) PAYMENT OF THE SUM OF $16,000 WITH
3 INTEREST THEREON ACCORDING TO THE TERMS OF A PROMISSORY NOTE
4 OR NOTES OF EVEN DATE HEREWITH MADE BY TRUSTOR PAYABLE TO
5 BENEFICIARY ORDER AND ANY MODIFICATIONS, RENEWALS OR
6 EXTENSIONS THEREOF.
7 NUMBER TWO, (READING:) PERFORMANCE OF EACH --
8 THE COURT: IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO READ THE ENTIRE
9 DOCUMENT.
10 MS. BURRELL: THAT'S RIGHT.
11 BY MS. BURRELL
12 Q AND DO YOU SEE A SIGNATURE DATE ON THIS
13 DOCUMENT?
14 A YES.
15 Q AND THE DATE?
16 A SEPTEMBER 16, 1968.
17 Q ONCE AGAIN, IS THAT YOUR FATHER'S SIGNATURE?
18 A YES.
19 Q AND THE RECORDING DATE ON THIS DOCUMENT?
20 A (READING:) RECORDED IN OFFICIAL RECORDS OF
21 LOS ANGELES COUNTY CALIFORNIA FOR TITLE INSURANCE AND TRUST
22 COMPANY SEPTEMBER 20TH, 1968.
23 Q AND JUST VERY BRIEFLY GO BACK TO EXHIBIT NUMBER
24 FOUR. LET ME JUST HAVE YOU LOOK AT THAT AGAIN AND READ AT
25 THE BOTTOM, PARAGRAPH ONE ONLY.
26 A (READING:) PERFORMANCE OF EACH AGREEMENT OF
27 TRUST OR HEARING CONTAINED. PAYMENT OF THE INDEBTEDNESS
28 EVIDENCED BY ONE PROMISSORY NOTE OR EVEN DATE HEREIN AND ANY

101
1 EXTENSION OR RENEWAL THEREOF IN THE PRINCIPAL SUM OF $2,000
2 EXECUTED BY TRUSTOR IN FAVOR OF BENEFICIARY ORDER.
3 Q HAVE YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONSIDER WHAT
4 THESE TWO DOCUMENTS MAY MEAN WITH REGARD TO YOUR FATHER'S
5 ACQUISITION OF 12TH AVENUE?
6 A YES.
7 Q DOES IT APPEAR TO YOU THAT HE TOOK OUT TWO LOANS
8 THEN -- OR TWO LOANS WERE TAKEN OUT?
9 A YES.
10 Q ONE FOR $16,000?
11 A UH-HUH, YES.
12 Q AND THE SECOND FOR $2,000?
13 A YES.
14 Q AND WAS YOUR FATHER UNMARRIED, TO YOUR
15 KNOWLEDGE, ON SEPTEMBER 16TH, 1968?
16 A NO.
17 Q WAS HE UNMARRIED ON SEPTEMBER 3RD OF 1968?
18 A NO.
19 Q THE LAST DOCUMENT I'LL SHOW YOU IS A THREE-PAGE
20 DOCUMENT. IT'S BEEN MARKED AS PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT EIGHT.
21 FIRST PAGE ENTITLES IT AS A DEED. IT BEARS A RECORDING
22 DATE.
23
24 (MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
25 PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT 8, THREE-PAGE
26 DOCUMENT.)
27
28 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)

102
1 BY MS. BURRELL
2 Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS DOCUMENT?
3 A YES.
4 Q IS THIS ANOTHER DOCUMENT YOU OBTAINED DURING
5 YOUR INVESTIGATION OF THE 12TH AVENUE TITLE?
6 A YES.
7 Q TAKE A LOOK AT PAGE TWO, AT THE TOP IT SAYS
8 QUITCLAIM DEED. DO YOU SEE THAT?
9 A YES.
10 Q DOES THIS DOCUMENT PURPORT TO TRANSFER THE 12TH
11 AVENUE PROPERTY FROM ODESSA GAINS TO THELSEY FULLER?
12 A YES.
13 Q AND IN THAT BOX THERE, DOES IT CLASSIFY THE
14 TRANSFER AS A GIFT? DO YOU SEE THAT?
15 A DOCUMENT TRANSFER TAX AND IT SAYS "GIFT."
16 Q OKAY.
17 TAKE A LOOK AT THE THIRD PAGE. CAN YOU SEE A
18 DATE OF THIS TRANSFER?
19 A FEBRUARY 23RD, 2003.
20 Q IS THAT THE DATE THAT'S PUT THERE BY THE NOTARY
21 THEN OR IS THAT A DATE OF THE NOTARIZATION OF THAT DOCUMENT?
22 A YES, IT IS.
23 THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT, I'M SORRY. SAY IT AGAIN.
24 MS. BURRELL: FEBRUARY 23RD, 2003, HE'S READING FROM
25 THE DATE ON THE NOTARY STAMP.
26 THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT A MINUTE. I SEE IT SAYS
27 JULY 23, 2008.
28 MS. BURRELL: JULY?

103
1 THE COURT: AM I LOOKING AT THE WRONG DOCUMENT?
2 NUMBER EIGHT. OKAY. THE FIRST PAGE IS THE RECORDER'S PAGE.
3 MS. BURRELL: STAMP, YES.
4 THE COURT: SECOND PAGE IT SAYS GRANT DEED.
5 MS. BURRELL: GRANT DEED? QUITCLAIM DEED.
6 THE COURT: I HAVE GRANT DEED.
7 MS. BURRELL: UH-OH.
8 THE COURT: I'M LOOKING AT THE WRONG DOCUMENT.
9 MR. LAK, DO YOU HAVE THE RIGHT ONE?
10 MR. LAK: NO, YOUR HONOR.
11 THE COURT: I HAVE DOCUMENT --
12 MS. BURRELL: OH, I SEE, IT'S MY MISTAKE. IT'S MY
13 MISTAKE. IT'S MY ITEM NUMBER SIX, PLEASE FORGIVE ME.
14 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
15 WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW IS A DOCUMENT MARKED
16 AS EXHIBIT SIX.
17 MS. BURRELL: MARKED AS EXHIBIT SIX. MY MISTAKE,
18 YOUR HONOR.
19 FORGIVE ME, MR. LAK.
20 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
21 THIS IS QUITCLAIM DEED DATED FEBRUARY 23, 2003.
22 MS. BURRELL: YES.
23 THE COURT: WHICH PURPORTS TO BE A QUITCLAIM FROM
24 ODESSA GAINS TO THELSEY FULLER.
25 MS. BURRELL: THAT'S CORRECT, YOUR HONOR.
26 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
27 DO YOU HAVE THAT, MR. LAK?
28 MR. LAK: YES, I DO.

104
1 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
2 NOW, GO AHEAD AND ASK YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT THE
3 DOCUMENT.
4 BY MS. BURRELL
5 Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS DOCUMENT?
6 A YES.
7 Q ALL RIGHT.
8 AND IT PURPORTS TO TRANSFER THE TITLE FROM
9 ODESSA GAINS TO THELSEY FULLER; IS THAT CORRECT?
10 A YES.
11 Q AND THE PROPERTY IS THE 12TH AVENUE PROPERTY?
12 A YES.
13 Q IS THAT CORRECT?
14 AND ON THE THIRD PAGE IT APPEARS TO BE SIGNED BY
15 ODESSA GAINS; IS THAT CORRECT?
16 A IT APPEARS, YES.
17 Q AND THE DATE OF THE NOTARY IS
18 FEBRUARY 23RD, 2003?
19 A YES.
20 Q OKAY.
21 MS. BURRELL: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER ON
22 THIS CONTINUED EXAMINATION.
23 MR. LAK: YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO CONFER WITH
24 COUNSEL TO MAKE SURE I HAVE MY EXHIBITS CORRECT, AND THEN I
25 WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A FEW CROSS EXAMINATION COMMENTS.
26 THE COURT: YES.
27 MR. LAK: MS. BURRELL, WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAND THOSE
28 EXHIBITS BACK TO YOUR WITNESS, I'M GOING TO USE MY COPIES AS

105
1 WELL, OR I COULD BORROW YOUR COPIES.
2 MS. BURRELL: SURE.
3
4 FURTHER RECROSS-EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. LAK
6 Q MR. FULLER, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND HOLDING ON TO
7 THAT FOR A MOMENT.
8 A UH-HUH.
9 Q DO YOU SEE YOUR FATHER'S SIGNATURE ON THIS PAGE?
10 A YES.
11 THE COURT: WHAT DOCUMENT ARE YOU LOOKING AT, PLEASE?
12 MR. LAK: LOOK AT PETITIONER'S EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE.
13 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
14 BY MR. LAK
15 Q DO YOU SEE THE SIGNATURE OF ODESSA GAINS AT THE
16 BOTTOM OF PAGE, AS WELL?
17 A I ASSUME.
18 Q DO YOU SEE THE SIGNATURE OF ODESSA GAINS?
19 A I DO SEE A SIGNATURE THERE, YES.
20 Q DO YOU SEE THE SIGNATURE OF WINNIE SMITH, A
21 NOTARY PUBLIC?
22 A YES.
23 Q AND DO YOU SEE THE CAPTION IMMEDIATELY PRECEDING
24 THE SIGNATURES, YOU CAN TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT IF YOU
25 LIKE, THAT SAYS WINNIE SMITH IS CERTIFYING THAT
26 THELSEY FULLER AND ODESSA GAINS BOTH PERSONALLY APPEARED?
27 A YES.
28 Q OKAY.

106
1 IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT THIS PURPORTS TO BE A
2 FIRST TRUST DEED OR A LOAN AGREEMENT?
3 A YES.
4 Q DO YOU SEE IN THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND CORNER OF THE
5 DOCUMENT, JUST BELOW WHERE IT SAYS (READING:) SPACE ABOVE
6 FOR RECORDER'S USE ONLY, THERE IS A LINE ITEM SAYING
7 (READING:) LOAN NUMBER 164-111083?
8 A YES.
9 Q DO YOU SEE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PAGE, THE SECOND
10 FULL PARAGRAPH, IT APPEARS THAT THIS FIRST TRUST DEED IS
11 HELD BY CALIFORNIA FEDERAL SAVINGS AND LOAN?
12 A YES.
13 Q SO DOES IT LOOK LIKE FROM THIS DOCUMENT THAT
14 BOTH THELSEY FULLER AND ODESSA GAINS SIGNED FOR A LOAN OF
15 $16,000 FROM CALIFORNIA FEDERAL SAVINGS AND LOAN?
16 A YES.
17 Q OKAY.
18 DID YOU OR YOUR COUNSEL SERVE A SUBPOENA ON
19 CAL FED OR ITS SUCCESSORS IN INTEREST REQUESTING THOSE LOAN
20 DOCUMENTS?
21 A NO.
22 Q HAVE YOU EVER APPLIED FOR A LOAN, SIR?
23 A YES.
24 Q HAVE YOU EVER HAD SOMEONE COSIGN FOR YOU --
25 A NO.
26 Q -- ON A LOAN?
27 A NO.
28 Q ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT TERM COSIGNER?

107
1 A YES, I AM.
2 Q AND ARE YOU FAMILIAR WHEN A COSIGNER IS OFTEN
3 REQUIRED?
4 A I NEVER HAD A COSIGNER ON ANY LOAN THAT I HAVE
5 EVER TAKEN.
6 Q TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, IF SOMEONE LACKS
7 CREDIT OR INCOME, IS A COSIGNER OFTEN REQUESTED?
8 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, HE'S TESTIFIED THAT HE'S
9 NEVER HAD IT DONE.
10 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
11 MR. LAK: THAT'S NOT MY QUESTION.
12 THE COURT: SUSTAINED, NO FOUNDATION.
13 BY MR. LAK
14 Q FROM THIS DOCUMENT CAN YOU TELL UPON WHOSE
15 CREDIT OR INCOME CALIFORNIA FEDERAL RELIED TO GRANT THE
16 LOAN?
17 A I WOULD HAVE TO READ THE WHOLE DOCUMENT.
18 Q FEEL FREE.
19 THE COURT: IS THERE A PLACE ON HERE THAT YOU WANT HIM
20 TO FOCUS ON?
21 MR. LAK: THERE IS -- NO. FROM THIS DOCUMENT, IT
22 CAN'T BE ASCERTAINED WHOSE CREDIT OR INCOME IS RELIED UPON.
23 MS. BURRELL: YOUR HONOR, WE'LL STIPULATE TO THAT.
24 THE COURT: I WOULDN'T THINK SO, IT'S A DEED OF TRUST.
25 MR. LAK: OKAY.
26 THE COURT: GO AHEAD. NEXT QUESTION.
27 MR. LAK: AND COUNSEL JUST STIPULATED TO THAT.
28 MS. BURRELL: YES.

108
1 MR. LAK: OKAY.
2 BY MR. LAK
3 Q DO YOU HAVE IN YOUR POSSESSION OR YOUR COUNSEL'S
4 POSSESSION ANY OTHER DOCUMENT THAT MIGHT GIVE THE COURT
5 INFORMATION ON WHO CAL FED RELIED UPON IN GRANTING THE LOAN?
6 MS. BURRELL: YOUR HONOR, WE'LL STIPULATE TO THE FACT
7 THAT THERE ARE NO OTHER DOCUMENTS.
8 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. NEXT QUESTION.
9 MR. LAK: OKAY.
10 BY MR. LAK
11 Q SO THEN IF THIS IS THE ONLY DOCUMENT EVIDENCING
12 THE LOAN, WE CAN'T TELL -- WELL, THAT'S BEEN ASKED AND
13 ANSWERED. I'LL WITHDRAW.
14 I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT FOUR.
15 MAY I BORROW YOUR COPY?
16 MS. BURRELL: WHICH ONE?
17 MR. LAK: THIS ONE (INDICATING).
18 MS. BURRELL: LET'S SEE THE DATE. YES, THAT IS IT.
19
20 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
21
22 MR. LAK: I'LL TAKE THAT BACK.
23 BY MR. LAK
24 Q MR. FULLER, I'LL ASK THE SAME QUESTIONS WITH
25 RESPECT TO THIS EXHIBIT.
26 ON THE SECOND PAGE, DO YOU SEE YOUR FATHER'S
27 SIGNATURE?
28 A YES.

109
1 Q AND DO YOU SEE THE SIGNATURE OF ODESSA GAINS?
2 A I PRESUME THAT IS HER SIGNATURE.
3 Q DO YOU SEE THE SIGNATURE THAT STATES
4 ODESSA GAINS?
5 A YES.
6 Q DO YOU SEE THE SIGNATURE OF WINNIE SMITH, A
7 NOTARY PUBLIC?
8 A YES.
9 Q AND DO YOU SEE THE CAPTION IMMEDIATELY TO THE
10 LEFT OF THE SIGNATURES OF THELSEY AND ODESSA THAT
11 CERTIFIES -- THAT STATES WINNIE SMITH IS CERTIFYING THAT
12 THEY PERSONALLY APPEARED BEFORE HER?
13 A YES.
14 Q LET'S TURN TO THE FIRST PAGE OF THE EXHIBIT.
15 YOU HAVE TESTIFIED THAT THIS PURPORTS TO BE A DEED OF TRUST
16 AND AN ASSIGNMENT OF RENTS IN THE AMOUNT OF $2,000; IS THAT
17 CORRECT?
18 A THAT'S CORRECT.
19 Q SO IF WE PUT EXHIBIT FOUR TOGETHER WITH
20 EXHIBIT FIVE, IT APPEARS THAT WHOEVER PURCHASED THIS
21 PROPERTY BORROWED FROM CALIFORNIA FEDERAL A TOTAL OF
22 $18,000; IS THAT CORRECT?
23 A THAT'S CORRECT.
24 Q HAVE YOU OR YOUR COUNSEL EVER SERVED A SUBPOENA
25 ON CALIFORNIA FEDERAL ASKING FOR LOAN DOCUMENTS WITH RESPECT
26 TO THIS LOAN OF $2,000?
27 A NO.
28 Q WOULD THAT -- AND BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE

110
1 INFORMATION WITH RESPECT TO THE LOAN, CAN YOU TELL FROM THIS
2 DOCUMENT UPON WHOSE CREDIT OR INCOME THE BANK RELIED UPON IN
3 GRANTING THE LOAN?
4 A I MEAN, I WOULD HAVE TO READ IT AGAIN.
5 MR. LAK: COUNSEL, WOULD YOU LIKE TO STIPULATE?
6 MS. BURRELL: NO, I'LL STIPULATE IT DOES NOT SAY WHOSE
7 CREDIT WAS RELIED UPON. I'LL STIPULATE TO THAT.
8 BY MR. LAK
9 Q SO, THEREFORE, BY LOOKING AT THESE TWO EXHIBITS,
10 AND THESE TWO EXHIBITS ALONE, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE A
11 DETERMINATION OF WHO SUPPLIED THE DOWN PAYMENT; IS THAT
12 CORRECT?
13 MS. BURRELL: THAT'S ARGUMENTATIVE, YOUR HONOR.
14 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
15 MS. BURRELL: THERE'S NO TESTIMONY THAT THERE WAS A
16 DOWN PAYMENT. THAT'S NOT WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.
17 THE COURT: BY LOOKING AT THE TWO DEEDS OF TRUST TO
18 THE HOUSE IS IT POSSIBLE TO DETERMINE WHO, IF ANYONE, MADE A
19 DOWN PAYMENT?
20 THE WITNESS: WELL, JUST LOOKING AT IT, I WOULD SAY
21 WITHOUT HAVING MORE INFORMATION, NO.
22 BY MR. LAK
23 Q AND SO THE SPECIFIC QUESTION IS: BASED ON
24 EXHIBITS FOUR AND FIVE, WE DON'T KNOW IF A DOWN PAYMENT WAS
25 MADE AND, IF SO, WE DON'T KNOW WHO SUPPLIED IT, IS THAT
26 CORRECT.
27 A YES.
28

111
1 (DOCUMENT HANDED TO THE WITNESS.)
2
3 BY MR. LAK
4 Q I'M GOING TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO PETITIONER'S
5 EXHIBIT NUMBER SIX, QUITCLAIM DEED. I'M GOING TO DRAW YOUR
6 ATTENTION, MR. FULLER, TO THE SECOND PAGE.
7 DO YOU SEE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PAGE WHERE THE
8 BOX SURROUNDING THE CAPTION AND INSIDE THE BOX STATES
9 (READING:) DOCUMENT TRANSFER TAX. AND THEN IT APPEARS TO BE
10 HANDWRITTEN "GIFT." DO YOU SEE THAT?
11 A YES.
12 Q ON THE SECOND PAGE DO YOU SEE THE TOP -- WE HAVE
13 A WITNESS, SHIRLEY RITCHEY. DO YOU SEE THAT?
14 A YOU SAID THE SECOND PAGE? I STILL HAVE --
15 Q I'M SORRY, THE THIRD PAGE.
16 A YES.
17 Q DO WE ALSO SEE THE SIGNATURE ROBERT FULLER?
18 A YES.
19 Q DO YOU SEE AT THE BOTTOM LEFT-HAND CORNER THE
20 SIGNATURE OF BERNICE DUNLOP?
21 A YES.
22 Q DOES IT APPEAR THAT BERNICE DUNLOP IS A NOTARY
23 PUBLIC?
24 A YES.
25 Q AND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PAGE, JUST ABOVE
26 BERNICE DUNLOP'S SIGNATURE, DO YOU SEE THE CAPTION THAT ON
27 FEBRUARY 23RD, 2003 BEFORE ME, BERNICE DUNLOP, APPEARED
28 ODESSA GAINS.

112
1 DO YOU SEE THAT?
2 A YES.
3 Q SO IF WE PUT THESE PAGES TOGETHER, IT APPEARS
4 THAT ODESSA GAINS IS EXECUTING A QUITCLAIM DEED IN FAVOR OF
5 THELSEY FULLER. IS THAT HOW YOU INTERPRET THESE DOCUMENTS?
6 A YES.
7 Q IF I DRAW YOUR ATTENTION, AGAIN, BACK TO THE
8 SECOND PAGE, AGAIN, THE BOX WITH THE HANDWRITTEN GIFT. DOES
9 IT APPEAR THAT THIS TRANSFER IS BEING CHARACTERIZED AS A
10 GIFT?
11 A IT APPEARS THAT THE DOCUMENT TRANSFER TAX IS A
12 GIFT.
13 Q SO FOR COUNTY TAX ASSESSOR PURPOSES, IT APPEARS
14 THAT THIS IS BEING TREATED AS A GIFT?
15 A YES.
16 Q IF THIS WAS THE ONLY PEN IN THE ROOM, AND I HAD
17 IT IN MY POSSESSION, COULD YOU GIVE ME THIS PEN?
18 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, THIS IS ARGUMENTATIVE.
19 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
20 BY MR. LAK
21 Q IF THELSEY FULLER OWNED THE 12TH STREET
22 PROPERTY, DOES IT SEEM ODD THAT ODESSA WOULD BE GIVING HIM A
23 GIFT.
24 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
25 THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
26 MR. LAK: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR. ACTUALLY,
27 IF YOU COULD JUST GIVE ME A MOMENT.
28 THE COURT: YES.

113
1 (PAUSE IN THE PROCEEDINGS.)
2
3 MR. LAK: ONE MORE QUESTION, BUT IT'S NOT RELATED TO
4 THIS RE-OPENING OF THE EXAMINATION.
5 MS. BURRELL: THEN I WOULD OBJECT.
6 MR. LAK: DIRECT.
7 THE COURT: WELL, WHAT DOES IT CONCERN?
8 MR. LAK: IT'S RELATING TO THE WITNESS' TESTIMONY FROM
9 YESTERDAY. I HAVE A QUESTION ON HAS HE EVER CALLED THE
10 AUTHORITIES FOR ELDER ABUSE AGAINST HIS SISTER
11 SHIRLEY RITCHEY.
12 THE COURT: WHAT IS THE OBJECTION?
13 MS. BURRELL: THAT IT EXCEEDS THE SCOPE OF MY
14 CONTINUED.
15 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
16 I'LL ALLOW HIM TO ASK THE QUESTION. I'LL ALLOW
17 THE CROSS EXAMINATION FROM YESTERDAY TO BE RE-OPENED.
18 GO AHEAD.
19 BY MR. LAK
20 Q MR. FULLER, HAVE YOU EVER CALLED THE
21 AUTHORITIES, BE IT POLICE OR ANY OTHER PERSON, WITH CLAIMS
22 OF ELDER ABUSE AGAINST YOUR SISTER SHIRLEY RITCHEY?
23 A YES.
24 Q WHEN DID YOU DO THAT?
25 A I BELIEVE IT WAS IN THE FIRST PART OF 2008. I
26 WAS ASKED TO DO SO BY ROBERT FULLER.
27 Q BUT YOU PLACED THE CALL?
28 A UNDER A LOT OF DURESS FROM DORIS AND ROBERT

114
1 SAYING THAT CAROL WAS POISONING DAD AND THEY SAID HORRIBLE
2 THINGS ABOUT CAROL. AND IT GOT TO THE POINT WHERE I WAS
3 BEGINNING TO GET PARANOID WHEN MY SISTER WOULD COME OVER
4 AROUND MY MOTHER THINKING THAT SHE MAY SLIP SOMETHING ON
5 HER. I MEAN, IT WAS JUST AWFUL. EVERY MORNING THEY WOULD
6 CALL ME AND TELL ME THAT CAROL WAS TRYING TO HURT DAD. AND
7 ROBERT ASKED ME TO CALL THE ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES.
8 Q AND DID YOU CALL ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES?
9 A OVER A PERIOD OF TIME BECAUSE AT FIRST I DIDN'T
10 BELIEVE IT, BUT AFTER HEARING IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER
11 AGAIN FINALLY I DID, YES.
12 Q SO YOU BELIEVE THERE WERE SOME MERITS TO THE
13 CLAIMS THAT SHIRLEY WAS ENDANGERING YOUR FATHER?
14 A YES. AT THE TIME I DID, YEAH.
15 Q AND THOSE CONCERNS THAT WERE RAISED WERE
16 SUFFICIENT FOR YOU TO CALL ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES?
17 A YES, BECAUSE THEY WERE --
18 Q AND THIS -- AND YOU SAY THIS WAS IN THE FIRST
19 PART OF 2008. WAS IT JANUARY OF 2008?
20 A I CAN'T REALLY REMEMBER THE DATE, I JUST KNOW
21 WAS EARLY ON.
22 Q WAS IT WHILE YOUR FATHER WAS LIVING AT
23 12TH STREET?
24 A YES.
25 Q CAN YOU RECALL ANYTHING ELSE, ANY OTHER
26 STATEMENTS THAT WERE MADE THAT GAVE YOU CONCERN
27 SHIRLEY RITCHEY WAS ENDANGERING YOUR FATHER'S LIFE?
28 A WELL, IT WAS THE -- IT WAS THE CONSTANT PHONE

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1 CALLS BEFORE I WOULD GO TO WORK. AT THE TIME I WAS WORKING
2 FULL TIME AND GETTING UP AT 3:00 AND 4:00 WITH MY MOTHER,
3 GETTING HER READY FOR HER DAY AND GETTING READY FOR WORK AT
4 6:00. SO I WAS GOING WITHOUT A LOT OF SLEEP.
5 AND THEN I WAS GETTING PHONE CALLS FROM ROBERT
6 AND DORIS TELLING ME THAT CAROL WAS PUTTING STUFF IN DAD'S
7 FOOD AND THEY WERE REALLY GETTING CONCERNED. AND THEN THEY
8 WERE AFRAID THAT DAD WAS GOING TO GIVE HER -- START GIVING
9 THE PROPERTY AND EVERYTHING TO HER, AND THEN IT JUST WENT ON
10 FROM THERE. IT WAS JUST EVERY MORNING, AND OVER A PERIOD OF
11 TIME I DECIDED TO GO AHEAD AND CALL THE ADULT PROTECTIVE
12 SERVICES.
13 Q DID YOU EVER TALK -- CONTACT YOUR FATHER
14 DIRECTLY AND ASK HIM ABOUT THESE ALLEGATIONS?
15 A I WOULDN'T WANT TO THINK THAT I WOULD CALL MY
16 DAD AND ASK HIM WAS HE BEING POISONED. I MEAN, I JUST
17 WOULDN'T DO THAT.
18 Q AND WHY NOT?
19 A WELL, BECAUSE HE WAS ELDERLY AND HE WASN'T
20 FEELING WELL.
21 Q SO YOUR FATHER WAS NOT FEELING WELL, SOMEONE IS
22 MAKING AN ALLEGATION THAT HE'S BEING POISONED AND YOU DON'T
23 THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO CALL HIM?
24 A WELL, WE WOULD TAKE HIM TO THE DOCTOR AND IT WAS
25 NOTHING THAT CAME OUT IN ANY OF THE TESTS.
26 Q SO YOU DIDN'T CALL HIM, BUT YOU TOOK HIM TO THE
27 DOCTOR?
28 A YEAH, ROBERT AND I.

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1 Q AND WHEN DID YOU TAKE HIM TO THE DOCTOR?
2 A OH, THAT WAS PROBABLY THE BEGINNING PART OF
3 2008.
4 Q OKAY.
5 SO YOU PHYSICALLY SAW YOUR FATHER?
6 A YES.
7 Q AND YOU TOOK HIM TO THE DOCTOR. DID YOU TAKE
8 HIM ONCE OR MORE THAN ONCE?
9 A WELL, ALTOGETHER I TOOK HIM QUITE A FEW TIMES,
10 ACTUALLY.
11 Q AND SO BASED ON YOUR TRIPS TO THE DOCTOR AND
12 STATEMENTS BY AND ROBERT AND DORIS, YOU HAD SUFFICIENT
13 CONCERN TO CALL ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES?
14 A NO. JUST BASED ON THE CONCERN I WAS GETTING
15 FROM ROBERT AND DORIS.
16 Q WHEN YOU SAW YOUR FATHER AND WHEN YOU TOOK HIM
17 TO THE DOCTOR, HOW DID HE LOOK?
18 A HE WAS BEGINNING TO GET WEAK. ROBERT SAID THAT
19 HE WAS SUFFERING FROM DEMENTIA AND DOING FLIP FLOPS, AND
20 SOME OF THAT WAS -- I COULD SEE THAT.
21 Q AND DID SHIRLEY RITCHEY HAVE ACCESS TO YOUR
22 FATHER DURING THIS TIME?
23 A YES.
24 Q WAS SHE EVER ALONE UNSUPERVISED WITH YOUR
25 FATHER?
26 A YES.
27 Q DID YOUR FATHER EVER GET VIOLENTLY ILL TO THE
28 POINT OF VOMITING?

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1 A I THINK -- I CAN'T REMEMBER. I DON'T KNOW IF
2 ONE OF THEM TOLD ME SO OR NOT. I DON'T KNOW.
3 Q BUT YOU SAW YOUR -- YOU TOOK YOUR DAD TO THE
4 HOSPITAL ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS --
5 A YES, BECAUSE HE MOVED IN WITH ME. HE MOVED IN
6 WITH ME AND I WAS TAKING HIM BACK AND FORTH TO THE HOSPITAL
7 AT NIGHT, MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, YES.
8 Q WELL, THIS IS THE EARLY PART OF 2008.
9 A OKAY. SO YOU REFERRING TO 2008, ME AND MY
10 BROTHER ROBERT TOOK HIM TO THE HOSPITAL.
11 Q WAS HE -- AND YOU JUST TESTIFIED THAT HE LIVED
12 AT 12TH STREET AT THIS TIME?
13 A HE LIVED AT 12TH STREET IN THE EARLY PART OF
14 2008. HE LIVED WITH ME IN JULY OF 2008.
15 Q I'M SPEAKING JUST SPECIFICALLY TO WHERE YOUR
16 FATHER WAS LIVING WHEN YOU FIRST HEARD ABOUT ALLEGATIONS OF
17 POISONING BY SHIRLEY RITCHEY.
18 A I BELIEVE I JUST TOLD YOU THAT, HE WAS LIVING AT
19 12TH AVENUE.
20 Q SO YOU VISITED YOUR FATHER ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS
21 WHILE HE WAS AT 12TH AVENUE, TOOK HIM TO THE DOCTOR WHILE HE
22 WAS AT 12TH AVENUE; IS THAT CORRECT?
23 A WELL, I COULDN'T GET OVER THERE AS FREQUENTLY
24 BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE ANYONE TO TAKE CARE OF MY MOTHER IN
25 THE EVENING.
26 Q SO ALLEGATIONS ARE BEING MADE THAT YOUR FATHER
27 IS BEING POISONED AND YOU COULDN'T GET OVER THERE?
28 MS. BURRELL: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTATIVE.

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1 THE COURT: OVERRULED.
2 THE WITNESS: WELL, WHAT IS IT -- WAIT A MINUTE. YOU
3 KNOW WHAT? WHAT IS IT THAT YOU'RE REALLY TRYING TO GET AT
4 HERE? WHY DON'T YOU JUST ASK ME THE QUESTION SO I CAN GET
5 OFF THE STAND, PLEASE.
6 THE COURT: SIR, HE ASKED YOU A QUESTION. PLEASE GIVE
7 YOUR ATTENTION TO THE QUESTION.
8 THE WITNESS: OKAY.
9 THE COURT: IF YOU WOULD LIKE IT READ BACK, THE COURT
10 REPORTER CAN DO SO AT THIS TIME. YES?
11 THE WITNESS: PARDON? I'M SORRY?
12 THE COURT: WOULD YOU LIKE IT READ BACK? DO YOU WANT
13 TO HEAR THE QUESTION AGAIN?
14 THE WITNESS: YES.
15 THE COURT: THE COURT REPORTER WILL READ IT BACK.
16
17 (RECORD READ.)
18
19 THE WITNESS: YES. SO I CALLED ADULT PROTECTIVE
20 SERVICES.
21 MR. LAK: THANK YOU.
22 NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.
23 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
24 ANYTHING FURTHER?
25 MS. BURRELL: NOTHING FURTHER.
26 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
27 THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU'RE EXCUSED.
28 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.

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1 THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
2
3 (THIS ENDS THE REQUESTED TRANSCRIBED
4 PORTION OF THE PROCEEDINGS.)
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1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES
3 DEPARTMENT CE-99 HON. MARVIN M. LAGER, JUDGE
4
IN RE THE MATTERS OF )
5 )
) CASE NOS. BP 122665
6 THELSEY L. FULLER TRUST ) BP 099211
AND )
7 EDWINA FULLER CONSERVATORSHIP ) REPORTER'S
) CERTIFICATE
8 ____________________________________)
9
10
11 I, STEPHANIE BAKER, OFFICIAL REPORTER OF THE
12 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, FOR THE COUNTY OF
13 LOS ANGELES, DO HEREBY CERTIFY THAT THE FOREGOING PAGES, 1
14 THROUGH 119, COMPRISE A FULL, TRUE AND CORRECT TRANSCRIPT OF
15 THE TESTIMONY OF STEVEN FULLER TAKEN IN THE ABOVE ENTITLED
16 CAUSE ON TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY, MAY 24 AND 25, 2011.
17
DATED THIS 27TH OF MAY, 2011.
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23 _________________________, CSR #9249
OFFICIAL REPORTER
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